Posted on 02/15/2010 9:07:17 AM PST by GonzoII
The Scenario:
Ever have one of those days when you’re feeling full of energy and vigor? I mean, you’re feeling just obnoxiously happy? Well, this is one of those days.
Driving home from work, you switch on the radio to see what’s happening, and you tune in to a local Protestant radio station just in time to hear a preacher speaking against various Catholic doctrines concerning Mary. The show is called Pastor Bob’s Bible Hour. Pastor Bob proclaims: “Jesus knew Catholics would come along and begin to worship His mother and call her perpetual virgin and absurd things like that. But the Bible says: ‘Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not His brethren James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all of His sisters with us?’ (Matt. 13:55-56a). And isn’t it sad, my brothers and sisters?”
Pastor Bob goes on to say: “Jesus dealt with these Mary worshippers in His day. In Luke 11:27-28, the Bible says, ‘A woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts that You sucked!” But He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”’”
On a normal day you would probably just listen, take a few mental notes and drive on. But not this time. You’re feeling a little bit too saucy. You take the first exit you see and head for a phone. This is just one more reason why you need to buy that cell phone you’ve been talking about getting.
Step One:
(Excerpt) Read more at envoymagazine.com ...
You’ve claimed that you are all about Christ, and yet you do not understand this very important point. It was not God the Father who commanded Christ to death on the cross, it was Christ who submitted to the authorities of man willingly. Who submitted to scourging, to a brutal crucifixion, upon which he expired only a few hours upon the cross.
The crucification was a plan of God, the trinity..There is perfect agreement on all issues..
The cross was ordained before the world was made, before the angels were made . All of Gods creation pointed at the redemption of man by the cross.
The fact that no man takes the life of Christ,that He laid it down does not mean that it was not the plan of the Father.
Really? Where? And how do you know to Whom John Paul is praying? When I say Hail Mary I am praying to God.
The scripure does tell you though that the Apostolic Church, -- not you -- gets to decide what forms prayer takes.
It also tells you that the basis of your faith, -- salvation by faith alone, -- is a heresy. Worry about that, please.
Read what is written. The result of the intercession was not full stomachs. It was the beginning of the conversion of many. That an evangleical, of all people, is blind to that shows a miserable poverty of faith and neanderthal disinterest in the Holy Scripture.
That would be heretical if Mary were proclaimed the source of grace. That we find Christ through Mary, and therefore receive all of His grace through Mary is in itself not heretical; it is a view held by many in the Church. Ad Iesum per Mariam, we often say.
My personal opinion is that, for sure, one outward sign of election is robust Marian devotion. On the other hand, the venom with which Marian devotions are met is a sure sign of a soul in great danger. I don't know if that i strue in absolutely every case, dogmatically, but this is a rule of thumb I have.
She will fulfill the request to pray for you if you ask, and that will be her clemency. Your justification will come from God, to Whom she prays.
What you do, generally, is discussing the form, which you find foreign. You then assume that because the form is foreign, the content is wrong. That is a leap of ignorance you make repeatedly.
Yes, but “his own” here means “fellow disciples”, that is, the Church, of which Mary now becomes the mother. It is not an economic arrangement (a house, “oikos” would connot that), it is spiritual adoption.
Praise the Lord!
John 12:46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in Me should stay in darkness.
I pray your family and friends learn from you.
I don't have any problems with Mary. I think she is a great example of a good Mom. I think she deserves our respect. I look forward to meeting her in heaven and talking with her.
My problem is with the distortion of Mary to the point that people believe they need to go to her instead of Jesus. My problem is with your church claiming she has god like powers and with the beliefs that have been created out of thin air that are leading people to worship her.
This is why people in your church worship Mary and think they are honoring God by doing so.
Events after Mary's death, such as her assumption; the developemnt of doctrine such as the clarification of certain verses pointing to Purgatory, or proper form of venerating Mary are indeed not spelled out for your satisfaction in the scripture.
Because they aren't there.
A couple simple things clarifies the issue of the Marian heresy. John was given responsibility to care for her. John was the last Apostle to die. Mary died before John did. John wrote the last book of the Bible. If any of the things claimed about Mary were true John would have written about them. He didn't.
Nor does the Catholic Church subscribe to the notion that every doctrine has to be found in perfect formulation in the scripture.
And now you have a heresy being accepted as good and true.
It's heresy.
As this heresy grows they will evolve right out of being a Christian assembly and into a Marian assembly.
Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.'...
They don't claim Abraham, instead they claim Mary.
“Yes, but “his own” here means “fellow disciples”, that is, the Church, of which Mary now becomes the mother. It is not an economic arrangement (a house, “oikos” would connot that), it is spiritual adoption.”
According to your interpretation which is informed by magisterial dictum no doubt.
Let's see the Scripture where it says it has to be in Scripture...?
Where does the Catholic Church claim that?
‘”Lets see the plain Scripture that Mary was assumed into heaven.”
Let’s see the Scripture where it says it has to be in Scripture...?” ‘
Lets say for the sake of this discussion that Mary was assumed into heaven. What does such an event convey about her that sets her apart from Enoch or Elijah who were also assumed into heaven?
Remember, if I'm not mistaken Enoch and Elijah will return so I don't think we can say their "time" is finished.
In a nutshell her assumption is and example and inspiration to the faithfull:
"The Feast of the Assumption has always been loved dearly by the faithful who are children of Mary. It is a sign to us that someday, through God's grace and our efforts, we too may join the Blessed Mother in giving glory to God. The Assumption is a source of great hope for us, too, for it points the way for all followers of Christ who imitate her fidelity and obedience to God's will. Where she now is, we are meant eventually to be, and may hope to be through Divine grace. Mary's being taken to heaven after her life on earth was ended is the logical outcome of her immaculate nature, uniquely protected -- also by God's grace -- from personal sin. We seek to imitate her self-sacrificing love, her indestructible faith and her perfect obedience."
Source - http://www.wf-f.org/Assumption.html
“Remember, if I’m not mistaken Enoch and Elijah will return so I don’t think we can say their “time” is finished.”
What do mean by the implication that their time is not finished?
Hey Mom,
Didn’t you used to be a Roman Catholic?
I always find it interesting to hear from those who were blind, but now can see on issues like Mary worship.
The issue is this: Every single solitary example of PRAYER in scripture IS a form of worship. Prayer and worship go together.
Since Roman Catholic do indeed pray to Mary, amidst other dead Christians, no matter whether you call it “veneration” or “respect” or “honor” you do, in fact, worship her, according to what the bible shows as a part of worship.
Proof texts where someone poetically calls out to angels in prayer does not change the fact that: PRAYER IS WORSHIP, and God alone is to be worshiped.
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