Posted on 12/28/2009 11:26:45 AM PST by urroner
For the sake of a discussion, let's assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing. You play the part of the Christian and I will play the part of the agnostic. (BTW, none of the below is true about me. Upfront, I am Mormon, but I have tried to get into this discussion on this forum for some time, but haven't been able to do so.)
(I also realize that there are some of you who are more than eager to post anti-Mormon material on this thread and I request that you don't do so. I don't even want Mormonism mentioned in this thread beyond this point.)
Let's assume that I'm out trimming the hedges between your house and mine and that you are working in a garden close to the hedges.
My wife and three kids, ages 3, 8, and 13, are all out with me. My wife keeps telling me I need to paint the house before it gets colder, my younger children are throwing little rocks at me to get my attention and laughing and giggling, and the oldest is pestering me about buying her a cellphone and about the promise I made a year ago about letting her pierce her ears for earrings.
In a calm moment, my wife and I get into a neighborly chat, well would be my wife, I'm a science/math teacher at the local community college and it's very hard for me to just sit down and chitchat and you tell us you are Christian.
My wife tells you she is a Christian also, but doesn't go to any denomination and hasn't been to church in several years, since marrying me, but that I am always peppering her with questions that she doesn't know the answers to. She says that one of the reasons she has stopped going to church is because she likes to spend Sundays with me since we don't get a lot of lone time together. I spend a lot of time helping students at the college and when I'm home, I have to spend a lot of time with the kids. We do have a date night every week, but that's just not enough.
She also says that she is also tired of seeing so much hypocrisy among the church members and the preacher is always asking for money, that she had decided to stop going. She says that her preacher, when she was little, told her she was saved as did her parents, so her salvation was guaranteed.
You see me roll my eyes when my wife says that.
I tell you that I really don't go to any denomination, but I have read the Bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, the Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, some of the writings of Marx, and some New Age books. I tell you that I don't know what the right way is or even if there is a right way?
I tell you that I tend toward Uniterianism, but Buddhism has some attraction to me also, but it's a little too esoteric for me. I tell you that I also have some problems with life after death, reincarnation, or any supernatural miracles.
I tell you my parents were Catholics before they died, but they died when I was very young and I have been to church only a couple of times since their funeral, but the people who adopted me were strong agnostics and never directed me to follow any particular path. I'm thinking about going back to the RCC, but haven't made any decision yet.
You realize that I am fairly knowledgeable of the Bible when it comes to knowing where what is, but you realize that I don't interpret them at all as you do. In fact, I have a very shallow understanding of them. I think the Bible is good literature and can help a person do a lot of good in this life, but I don't know anything about being saved and what that means.
I ask you what you believe and how I can find the happiness and joy you have in your life.
What are you going to say or do?
BTW...you bid us goodnight a few minutes ago...But here you are again!!
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He should have quoted the Book of Mormon and bid us “Adieu”.
“...and to the reader I bid farewell, hoping that many of my brethren may read my words. Brethren, adieu.” (Jacob 7)
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jacob/7
After reading most of the responses to your query, the confusion seems to grow in intensity while ever more questions and accusations join the fray. Religions have managed to build their walls of separation for thousands of years, and their mission has always been to convince those on the other side to come over. Why is it so difficult to see that the many walls of interpretation, doctrines, confessions, rituals, etc. are in fact the real problem here? They are taking the place of the authentic forgiving love between humans. They hide and even destroy God’s declaration of humanitarian justice. You can uncover more on this topic at my Blog: http://infoguyhank.wordpress.com
lol. Unfortunately there are still people who buy into Smith’s fairy tales.
Way to promote..........
Why did no Mormon ancestor propagate and grow their nation? How is the Cherokee were the only tribe found, thus far, to have a written language and an organized codified form of government? If there were a Mormon tribe what would distinguish them from others? By this I mean, I know the difference between and a North American Indian and a South of the border Indian such as Mayans. Where is the history explained above that Mormon kept? Is it lost? Why? Where would the Gold have come from that Mormonism is based upon? Why gold? The Jews only get some stone tablets?
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Well, you see, the ‘gold’ was spiritual gold, seen with ‘spiritual eyes’ and all Indians are Mormons/Jews - they just don’t know it. The lack of records and traces of civilization is due to the widespread plagues that decimated the Indian population upon contact with Europeans (this actually has some historical support.)
But yes, one might be surprised to find traces of chariots when there is no evidence of horses before the Spanish brought them. Huts and records can disappear, but bones tend to last, and horse bones don’t have to be in a secret undisclosed battleground location, like Hill Cumorah.
wow you turned your post into an advert for your blog.
Boss doesn’t like that much.
Yeah ZOT time!
True! (That’s why I stuck a verse in the middle - verrrrrrry sneaky of me.) ;)
I have been to a psychiatrist and certified normal and sane...have you?
I think the questions may be less strawman and more heartfelt.
Perhaps the PAT answers that a certain religious Organization has provided seem a bit TOO pat...
Welcome n00b...
Urroner doesnt want your help...
he just wants to kibbitz...
Its a mormon trate...
“In Chinese, “Mormon” means “gates of hell.”
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Well lookee there...
Dont that beat all ???
The Chinesse know that mormonism is not Christianity...
And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18
many of you knew I am LDS-Christian
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Nobody here “knew” that kid...
There’s no such thing...
We knew you were not a Christian...
and we knew you were a mormon...
Always nice to see mormons shooting while they are retreating posthaste.
Nothing new here.........
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The mormons learnt that one from Joey Smith...
Shootin his way out of jail ...retreating posthaste...
While he was escaping he murdered two men...
Welcome n00b...
You been a bad boy...
I didn't ask anything of you. You asked something of us with your post.
I didn't insult your religion, you insulted me and whatever you think I believe in.
You're not going to convince people by babbling with them. Accept that in all likelihood you're out of a span of probable agreement/compromise especially with younger people that live a fast pace professional life and are college educated. The person you describe will figure it out themselves or have some epiphany at some point (They usually do), but not because of you. Your words are no match to the physical and emotional pleasure hedonism can offer. Do you think you can talk your neighbor out of paying for on-line porn? Do you think talking about “What would Jesus do?” will have any resonance? Like an alcoholic, they fix themselves and they first have to realize by themselves that what they believe in is selfish, immoral, and destructive. Usually over time, the simple lessons/phases in life: job, wife, kids, crime, death et al. change peoples views. You see many die hard liberals who once they pay taxes, are married and have children of their own suddenly change their views regards gas guzzling SUVs, taxes, education, capital punishment, etc. Likewise when man and woman age, they generally become more religious over time through simple life experiences that make the need for God obvious. But you're not going to talk them into anything. If anything, you'll just sour the relationship you do have or make an ass of yourself. Being cordial and accepting differences is not a bad thing.
If they come to you and ask for help, that's a different story. But even then, don't play minister/father/rabi/imam/etc. Just like I'm no psychologist and wouldn't inject myself into a situation where I'm playing marriage counselor, I would refer someone that wants to be helped to people who can speak with authority and have the appropriate experience/education.
Having a discussion about religion with hedonist makes as much sense as talking about politics and Obama with her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI
What?
No free brochure...
No free brochure...
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WHAT ???
No free book of mormon ???
ZOT then...
Surprised ol' J.S. didn't quote Pancho Villa....
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