Posted on 12/28/2009 11:26:45 AM PST by urroner
For the sake of a discussion, let's assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing. You play the part of the Christian and I will play the part of the agnostic. (BTW, none of the below is true about me. Upfront, I am Mormon, but I have tried to get into this discussion on this forum for some time, but haven't been able to do so.)
(I also realize that there are some of you who are more than eager to post anti-Mormon material on this thread and I request that you don't do so. I don't even want Mormonism mentioned in this thread beyond this point.)
Let's assume that I'm out trimming the hedges between your house and mine and that you are working in a garden close to the hedges.
My wife and three kids, ages 3, 8, and 13, are all out with me. My wife keeps telling me I need to paint the house before it gets colder, my younger children are throwing little rocks at me to get my attention and laughing and giggling, and the oldest is pestering me about buying her a cellphone and about the promise I made a year ago about letting her pierce her ears for earrings.
In a calm moment, my wife and I get into a neighborly chat, well would be my wife, I'm a science/math teacher at the local community college and it's very hard for me to just sit down and chitchat and you tell us you are Christian.
My wife tells you she is a Christian also, but doesn't go to any denomination and hasn't been to church in several years, since marrying me, but that I am always peppering her with questions that she doesn't know the answers to. She says that one of the reasons she has stopped going to church is because she likes to spend Sundays with me since we don't get a lot of lone time together. I spend a lot of time helping students at the college and when I'm home, I have to spend a lot of time with the kids. We do have a date night every week, but that's just not enough.
She also says that she is also tired of seeing so much hypocrisy among the church members and the preacher is always asking for money, that she had decided to stop going. She says that her preacher, when she was little, told her she was saved as did her parents, so her salvation was guaranteed.
You see me roll my eyes when my wife says that.
I tell you that I really don't go to any denomination, but I have read the Bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, the Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, some of the writings of Marx, and some New Age books. I tell you that I don't know what the right way is or even if there is a right way?
I tell you that I tend toward Uniterianism, but Buddhism has some attraction to me also, but it's a little too esoteric for me. I tell you that I also have some problems with life after death, reincarnation, or any supernatural miracles.
I tell you my parents were Catholics before they died, but they died when I was very young and I have been to church only a couple of times since their funeral, but the people who adopted me were strong agnostics and never directed me to follow any particular path. I'm thinking about going back to the RCC, but haven't made any decision yet.
You realize that I am fairly knowledgeable of the Bible when it comes to knowing where what is, but you realize that I don't interpret them at all as you do. In fact, I have a very shallow understanding of them. I think the Bible is good literature and can help a person do a lot of good in this life, but I don't know anything about being saved and what that means.
I ask you what you believe and how I can find the happiness and joy you have in your life.
What are you going to say or do?
Yeah....I LOL!
Hi Urroner,
You’ll get a million replies on this, but I just wanted to drop you a quick, simple response.
I would tell you the reason that I have found happiness is because I have discovered the truth about what God wants from man. I have found that ALL of the institutions you mentioned (denominations) are man-made, and do not contain the fullness of Christ.
Instead of being shackled to man-made traditions and religions, I have found the simple truth: the reason why most people in our times are uncomfortable with the Christian religion is because the Christian religion they practice is man-made. It is not the Christianity of the Bible.
As your neighbor, I would invite you to my home (or ask to come into yours, if that is more comfortable for you) and show you in God’s word, the Bible, how simple Christianity really is. The truth will set you free (John 8:32), and if Christ sets you free you will be free indeed. Free from sin, free from false religion, and free from doubt.
Let me know if I can help you in any way. :)
LOL
Chris, I’m so sorry you has such a horrible experience. While there are sharp disagreements here on FR on just about every subject (mariology, baptism, and communion come especially to mind), we do try to persuade rather than rant. May your family have a blessed new year!
Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible has a list of "Infernal Names." Mormo is the god of the ghouls, an evil being obsessed with the dead.
"In Chinese, "Mormon" means "gates of hell." That's why the Mormon missionaries have problems in Hong Kong, for instance. They have to avoid using the word "Mormon" in trying to convert the Chinese."
Strange to be sure.
No, the “something like that” didn’t confuse me, it was how drastically you changed what I had said in order to meet you view of me.
First, I didn’t say I read the scripture more than Christians. That would be impossible, for how could I read it more than I read it. Sorry OO, but I am a Christian no matter how much you or those like you rant and rave about it.
What I said was that I had read the scriptures that get thrown at me by raving anti-Mormons more than most born-again Christians. I didn’t say whether or not I understood those scriptures like most born-again Christians, but you are trying to obfuscate what I said for your own nefarious purposes.
BTW, not only do I understand them better, but I do read the Bible more that most born-again Christians. I read it at least once a year and I’ve done that for several years. In a survey I saw several years ago, it pointed out that most born-again Christian haven’t read the OT and the NT, in fact most of them haven’t read the complete NT, but they do read certain parts of the Bible a lot.
After you find it, you’ll realize that what you said I might have said and what I said are two different things.
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Actual quote: “Throwing scriptures at me doesn’t do any good either. I have read all those scriptures before, probably more than most born-again Christians ever have.”
Osage Orange was pretty accurate on his post. The meaning is the same. You were bragging about reading more scripture than “most born again Mormons”.
Well, when you have spent 8 years or more reading the Bible 50+ hours a week in English, Latin, Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, and an additional 2 hours per day devotional reading, then come talk to me about who has read the Bible more.
FWIW, about 90% of Evangelical “born again” Christians I know spend over 1 hour per day reading their Bible
Most LDS I know spend about 15 minutes per day, if that and it is most often the Book of Mormon, not the Bible.
Why would I ever want to listen to anybody who uses inciting language while yelling and screaming at me the whole time.
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Not sure what the point of your post is; I certainly haven’t been yelling at you.
- You can call yourself anything you want, including “Christian” but there is a difference between facts and fantasy. No rant, just truth.
- We are very proud that you READ the Bible often, good for you. However given that you buy the fantasy that is the LDS obviously you have some way to go to reach UNDERSTANDING, and prove there is a dramatic difference between the two concepts.
Ok, now carry on with you little game to impress your Mormon buddies. After all faith is just a sport with you guys anyways.
You said what you said....
And it's documented, and I will probably bring it up again. Because you are one that will have to be shown his own words over and over again.
But like you are attempting now...you will deflect, deny, and lie if you have to.
I'm pretty used to seeing this tactic..from cult members.
HERE'S YOUR WORDS ON THIS VERY POST....BTW, not only do I understand them better, but I do read the Bible more that most born-again Christians. I read it at least once a year and I’ve done that for several years.
You are one arrogant, sad, fellow....
Frankly I doubt you can ever see the Truth.
But I have prayed for you....
Wow! That sucks.
placemarker
The word Mormon comes from the LDS acceptance of the “Book of Mormon”. Mormon is a character from the book.
IIRC, it started out as a slam, like “baptist” but became adopted by the LDS fairly early on. They were also called “Mormonites”.
So there are Born again Mormons and Born again Christians? Why the distinction?
S.O.P.
It's part of the training.
Now that is plain funny and I can use that on a couple of other people I know. Thanks LOL
BTW, where did the word Mormon come from and what does it mean?
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LOL! It comes from the angel “Moroni,” but calling themselves “Morons” just didn’t seem like good PR...
I apologize but I have to dash off.
I appreciate those who talked to me like I was an agnostic and showed great patience for all my “shy” questions even though many of you knew I am LDS-Christian. I wanted to see how traditional Christians would treat an agnostic.
I appreciate those who realized that agnostics won’t simply accept what you throw at them in the Bible because they don’t believe that it’s the word of God. If they did, they wouldn’t be agnostic.
I also appreciate greatly all those who ranted and raved on Mormonism on this thread. You have shown your true colors once again, and them colors ain’t pretty. Once again you have shown that getting the wrong message out is more important than getting the right message out. Thanks for all the tridents you have thrown at me, they all missed or I didn’t even see them. BTW, the agnostic sitting in the next cubicle, who encouraged me to start this thread, thinks you’re all goofy and off-your-rockers. He said that it’s the like of you who drove him away from Christianity years ago. He said that with the like of you, Mormonism has nothing to fear.
I also want to thank all those who are truly concerned for my salvation and told me in loving Christlike ways that you are. I truly appreciate it. My agnostic buddy said that if more people had been like you earlier in his life, he probably would have stayed Christian, but then he said with a wink “Only God knows.”
G’night to one and all.
“most born again Mormons”.
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CORRECTION: That should have been “Born again CHRISTIANS”, born again Mormons, an whole ‘nother can of worms.
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