Possibly; but if you'd posted it the yellow flag would fall for piling on!
Posted on 11/30/2009 6:01:03 PM PST by delacoert
I’ll just leave this here…
Before a defense of any kind of religious discrimination, one ought to make all of the necessary disclaimers: of course I oppose government-sponsored discrimination, and I certainly would not support the kind of absurd treatment described by Steven Reinhart in his piece featured below. That being said, there is a legitimate case to be made for judging any candidate for office by his religious convictions.
In late 2007, Mitt Romney made his somewhat-famous speech on religion, where he spoke the following words:
“Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.”
Similarly, Romney has stated: “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it…my faith is the faith of my fathers. I will be true to them and to my beliefs.”
If freedom requires religion, if his Mormon faith sustains his life and he will be true to those practices, then I’m at an utter loss as to why we should ignore Romney’s religious beliefs when evaluating his fitness for the White House.
We ask plenty of questions of any Evangelical Christian candidate: what do his beliefs about the nature of God, the nature of the cosmos, and the meaning of man’s life mean for his potential tenure in office? But for whatever reason, these questions are looked at as unnecessarily piercing and prejudiced when asked of a member of a minority faith.
When Sarah Palin gave her fumbling answer about Israel’s settlements, several commentators jumped on her faith, wondering whether she subscribed to the bizarre but potent sect of modern Christianity that believes in the imminence of the End Times. Will anyone ask Mitt Romney about the oddities of the dogma of the Mormon Church? There are plenty of Mormon doctrines that may strike people as a bit odd — and rightly so. It is established in the church that the devout can reach the upper echelons of heaven and eventually become gods themselves, able to create their own universes and govern them as they see fit (all while supervised by the One True God). Why is it that when I bring this up to Romney fans, I am dismissed as a bigot?
As an atheist, I both understand and accept that in a predominantly Christian society, my thoughts on religion are necessarily going to open me up to questions. If I were to ever run for office (don’t count on that, by the way), I would not expect my supporters would try to ward off any questions about my atheism with the victim-card of discrimination. One’s philosophy of religion contributes profoundly to his worldview and thus is a completely valid criterion by which to partially evaluate a candidate’s fitness for office.
I view all religions as equally bizarre and irrational. But mainstream Christianity is often adopted as a cultural guise, meant for purposes of assimilation with the majority. Probe most self-described Christians and you’ll find plenty of deviation from standard dogma. Devotion to Mormonism, which is completely outside of the American mainstream, requires a certain level of commitment. To what extent will Romney’s faith influence his decision-making? I ask that question of devoted Evangelicals and judge them accordingly, and I will do the same of a Mormon. And I am not going to apologize for that.
Then WHY did he say their denomination was UNTRUE?
That is NO data to back up his statement; therefore a reasonable person would gather that he was lying.
And you do not lie about folks you don't hate.
I make no equivalency at all, nor do I attempt to reconcile the competing understandings of Christ within the major mainstream Christian denominations.
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That is because there IS NONE. Agreement on Christology is one of the things that makes “Christians” Christians.
FOCUS
This is about Christianity and Mormonism...
There IS a test, and ROMNEY is excluded - NOT his MORMONism.
And there we have it. I am not interested in the battle between Christian demoniations...I am interested in the force that threatens them all; Islam.
Just out of curiosity, how do the Crusades, Inquisitions, or even the current wars in Ireland where “Christian” churches have butchered millions of other Christians for centuries work for ya? Just curious. They all believe in the Trinity after all. I thought their differences were just minor points of doctrine. How can this be?
...and the TRUTH shall set you free.
You don’t really believe that do you? You do understand that there are huge differences between Christian sects.
No, it’s not. It’s about Christianity and Islam, at least my point is.
Have you noticed the title of the thread? Just asking...
The Mormon "Christ" is a pre-existent spirit, they say, like you or me...whose difference is...
(a) mere spiritual birth order--having been first;
(b) was twice made a son of God via Mary; and
(c) died for Adam's sin so folks could be resurrected (his role as Savior).
The true Messiah was born in Bethlehem as the Bible foretold and affirmed post-birth--not like the Mormon jesus of Mormon "scriptures" supposedly born in Jerusalem.
Other than that, the lds jesus is not the Son of God from eternity past. He worked his way up to godhood status. He's not an exalted God-become-man, but an exalted man-become-God. He was an elder spirit bro of Lucipher. Had you or your brother been "first" in that pre-existent spirit world birth order, he could have been Christ!!!
This "jesus" is foreign to the Bible. The Messiah of the Bible shared the glory with the Father in the beginning (John 17:5). This Jesus is THE Son of God, not just a son of God. And THE Son of God did not consider equality with His Father something he couldn't let go of while becoming a man (see Philippians 2). Phil. 2 makes it clear He was already divine, not just a "wannabe" God like Dear Ole Dad.
The True Jesus Christ: Savior, not a Saved Being
In contrast, the Mormon christ is but a "saved being"--a mere creature like dear ole Dad: "Christ is a saved being” (lds apostle McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257) “Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth ‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being...” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) (Please also see McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation”)
I'm sorry. The real Christ is the Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).
In contrast, the Mormon christ is one savior among many:
"...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (lds "prophet" John Taylor; Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).
No, "saviors of the world" are not plentiful (1 John 4:14; John 4:42).
The Mormon "jesus" really didn't die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature...cause if we get to Mormon heaven we discover the Mormon doctrine of men are subject to punishment for their own sins--not Jesus as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression." The flip side of this belief is that Jesus wasn't punished for our sins--men will be...Jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."]
The True Jesus Christ: Creator of All Things & All Beings, Not Simply a Creature
The Jesus of the Bible created all things--including all angels...including even Lucipher (see Heb 1; John 1; Col. 1:16; see even D&C 93:9-10). This Jesus didn't atone for sins by sweating blood in the garden; He did it on Calvary as the Bible proclaims.
Conclusion:
The Mormon jesus is...
...weak...
...allows Satan to 100% plunder his church...
...miscalculates badly on his kingdom tower-building...
...speaks falsely -- prophesied that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against his church -- whereas those gates DID prevail vs. the Mormon jesus shortly after his disciples died ...
...picks a bumbling Apostle Paul, who likewise gets all this wrong in both Eph. 3:21 and 1 Tim. 4:1 -- gets it all wrong, that is, if the Mormons are right [re: only SOME would depart from the faith -- not ALL]...
The Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!)
I worship this Messiah, just like God told the angels to do in Hebrews 1:6. And I challenge grassroots Mormons to defy their leaders when they tell them NOT to directly worship Jesus (see Mormon 7:7; 2 Nephi 25:29; 4 Nephi 4:37; 3 Nephi 11:17; 3 Nephi 17:10).
I directly pray to this Jesus as Stephen did in Acts (7:59) -- and even as the supposed Book of Mormon disciple characters DIRECTLY and repeatedly did to Jesus in 3 Nephi 19: 6-26...again -- a Mormon "scripture" de-emphasized & ignored by Mormon leaders.
Thomas calls Jesus his God in John 20:28; even the Nephite disciples likewise called Jesus “their Lord and God” (3 Nephi 19:18). D&C says Jesus is God (19:4; 62:1; etc.) Since there’s only one true God in the bible and in the LDS scriptures (for example, Pearl of Great Price says "no God besides me" (1:6), either Jesus is a false god or the one true God. As Jesus Christ is a God to Thomas (John 20:28) -- so Thomas has two gods?
Jesus Christ is my Lord, my Savior, my God! He is the Only Lord, the Only Savior, the Only True God!
...and have you noticed who I responded to in my comments? Comments that were made about Islam.
Possibly; but if you'd posted it the yellow flag would fall for piling on!
...and I see you did just the opposite.
There are core beliefs shared among Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox movements, hence we often accept each others baptism etc...
For example when I joined the Greek Orthodox Church they took my Methodist Baptism. If one were looking for two Churches that should be "far apart" on the Christian spectrum it would be those two, yet there you have one respecting the sacraments of the other because they are family.
Indeed the bulk of issues in contention even today are for the most part procedural and liturgical, and even those beyond that do not cause any of these groups to refer to the members of the others as anything but Christian Brothers.
That is why the various denominations can often times be found in Ecumenical movements sharing the message of Christ. Because it is the same for all of them. The even share and enjoy the same Creed that came from the committee meeting at Nicaea
So instead of you feebly trying to give me a history lesson, let me give you some advice. Try and actually study Mormonism before you spout off on things you do not know. Perhaps you will learn why the major faiths, the ones you are trying drive apart to make your point, all agree the the LDS is most certainly not Christan, not in any real sense.
Such as #227?
Ditto bump.
I know we are having an impact, once again, when you go that deep into the old sack and pull that one up.
Has it ever worked?
Smith used the word "professors" (in other contexts) to refer to those beyond mere teachers. 2 Nephi, anyway, according to Mormon teaching, was written 500 or so years prior to Christ even being born. So to make that sound like "this is the Mormon line about followers of Christ" 2300-2500 years later (even if we concede it was written then) is ludicrous.
No, go back farther. To the points made about Islam.
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