--MormonDude(I have nothing but PRAISE for that man!)
You mean like THIS?!
Posted on 11/30/2009 6:01:03 PM PST by delacoert
I’ll just leave this here…
Before a defense of any kind of religious discrimination, one ought to make all of the necessary disclaimers: of course I oppose government-sponsored discrimination, and I certainly would not support the kind of absurd treatment described by Steven Reinhart in his piece featured below. That being said, there is a legitimate case to be made for judging any candidate for office by his religious convictions.
In late 2007, Mitt Romney made his somewhat-famous speech on religion, where he spoke the following words:
“Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.”
Similarly, Romney has stated: “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it…my faith is the faith of my fathers. I will be true to them and to my beliefs.”
If freedom requires religion, if his Mormon faith sustains his life and he will be true to those practices, then I’m at an utter loss as to why we should ignore Romney’s religious beliefs when evaluating his fitness for the White House.
We ask plenty of questions of any Evangelical Christian candidate: what do his beliefs about the nature of God, the nature of the cosmos, and the meaning of man’s life mean for his potential tenure in office? But for whatever reason, these questions are looked at as unnecessarily piercing and prejudiced when asked of a member of a minority faith.
When Sarah Palin gave her fumbling answer about Israel’s settlements, several commentators jumped on her faith, wondering whether she subscribed to the bizarre but potent sect of modern Christianity that believes in the imminence of the End Times. Will anyone ask Mitt Romney about the oddities of the dogma of the Mormon Church? There are plenty of Mormon doctrines that may strike people as a bit odd — and rightly so. It is established in the church that the devout can reach the upper echelons of heaven and eventually become gods themselves, able to create their own universes and govern them as they see fit (all while supervised by the One True God). Why is it that when I bring this up to Romney fans, I am dismissed as a bigot?
As an atheist, I both understand and accept that in a predominantly Christian society, my thoughts on religion are necessarily going to open me up to questions. If I were to ever run for office (don’t count on that, by the way), I would not expect my supporters would try to ward off any questions about my atheism with the victim-card of discrimination. One’s philosophy of religion contributes profoundly to his worldview and thus is a completely valid criterion by which to partially evaluate a candidate’s fitness for office.
I view all religions as equally bizarre and irrational. But mainstream Christianity is often adopted as a cultural guise, meant for purposes of assimilation with the majority. Probe most self-described Christians and you’ll find plenty of deviation from standard dogma. Devotion to Mormonism, which is completely outside of the American mainstream, requires a certain level of commitment. To what extent will Romney’s faith influence his decision-making? I ask that question of devoted Evangelicals and judge them accordingly, and I will do the same of a Mormon. And I am not going to apologize for that.
That is quite a switch since when i was last active in church. What has caused this?
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The main inflence in those leaving the LDS is the internet. LDS conversion numbers, espeicially here in the US, peaked in the 1980’s and early 1990’s, before almost everyone had the internet. Information that previously was difficult to verify (LDS church leader quotes and Temple ordinances) is easily available.
Additionally, the internet has allowed ex-Mormons to share their stories and many believe that has made leaving the LDS feel less lonely. Often, there is a feeling that you are the only one going through this. Discussion boards and online support groups have changed that.
The Churches in Utah especially have become sensitive to the needs and problems of someone transitioning out of Mormonism, and their pastors have become more versed in the culture of Mormonism and how to help people.
Finally, there have been several new ministries to Mormons that focus on bringing the LDS to Christ rather than just telling of the problems of the LDS. These ministries help with the transition from Mormonism to Christianity.
I have several friends who are either in ministry to Mormons (via web, print, TV, and/or one on one) or who are pastors of Christian churches in the SLC to Provo area. They have seen a dramatic increase in the last 10 years or so formerly “active” Mormons leaving and coming to faith in Jesus alone. There are a couple of churches specifically designed to transition people out of Mormonism, explaining terms, dealing with family/friend loss, and using biblical context to explain theology.
I've been saying this for the past few years -- especially the gullibility aspect:
My comments from past threads: When a candidate mislabels 75% of his voting base's primary faith tenets and claims & reduces them to mere "apostate" status--Note that LDS "Scripture" specifically labels the entire Christian church as "apostate"
and Note that 75% of people claim to be "Christians" in the more mainline/Protestant/Catholic sense--& frankly, this % is higher in the Republican party)...
...Then...
...he not only shows open disdain for his voting base, but betrays his ability to inspire confidence in his ability to accurately define a major world religion.
If he cannot accurately define a major world religion, what confidence does he inspire re: his ability to handle national security issues, terrorist issues, & negotiation issues pertaining to another world religion like Islam?
I know silly not to expect it since it serves the cause.
We accept LDS folks in the cause DESPITE our reservations about their faith. Indeed I said often during the Prop 8 fight I would gladly defend LDS folk if attacked by the lefties. So did others.
But when you use the faith as an excuse to promote the UNCONSERVATIVE, well that is where we part ways.
Mitt is barely even moderate.
Mitt happens to be Mormon.
Mitt is unacceptable.
Mike Huckabee is barely even a moderate and in some cases worse then Romney.
Huckabee happens to be Evangelical.
Huckabee is unacceptable.
There will be Mormons who will defend Mitt at all costs, including the reputation as Conservatives ignoring his obvious record and failure in that regard.
There will be Evangelicals who will defend Huckabee at all costs, including their reputation as Conservatives ignoring his obvious record and failure in that regard.
To there credit there will be both Mormons, and Evangelical (indeed a greater number of both) here on FR who will reject them both despite being religious peers.
See a pattern yet there Reno?
This is not about who we want at the table, it is about what those at the table will stand for POLITICALLY. Mitt being a Mormon does not now make socialized medicine and weak abortion stances part of Conservative thought.
Oh, to your credit you finally did actually post a link to something...
I suspect an atheist POTUS would perform much better than either a Muslim or Mormon.
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At least you would know where they stand.
What concerns me about the Mormons is their tendency (even seen here on the Religion Forum) to spin their words (and even lie about their beliefs) in order to make the LDS Church or themselves look good.
I can easily see this tendency spilling over into politics. We already have had enough of lies and spin. We need an HONEST POTUS that we can trust. The more you know about Mormonism, the less you will trust them. Been there, done that.
True. And nothing stops Mormons from holding public office (look @ Congress -- Lds congressmen represent slightly above what the Lds population is nationally).
As far as the POTUS position holds, though, Luther didn't live in an era of global terrorism where...
(a) we need a POTUS who at least understands world religions -- and one who won't label 75% of his own country as "apostates" and creedally abominable -- as true-believing Mormons adhere to, Lds "scripture" wise...
(b) And it'd be nice if we had a POTUS running into Jack Bauer type of dirty bomb scenarios that he was actually on "dial" to accessing the right God to guide him through crisis situations -- not the wide "council of gods" among millions of gods that Mormons say exist out there in nethereverland -- gods who simply supposed "graduated" from manhood vs. being a God from eternity past.
Why did Joseph Smith hate the PRESBYTERIANS?
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Either he tried to molest the daughter of a Presbyterian pastor and she told him no and/or told her Dad that Joey had tried to force himself upon her...
Her Dad run him off with the sight of his cocked gun...Joey Smith was a craven coward...
or both scenerios...
But either way Joey Smith was POed and talked ugly about Presbyterians and other pastors to get even..
Joey Smith hated Christians and invented a mormon god to hate them too...
Joey Smith had little respect for decency, other peoples property or anyone or anything that stood in the way of his idea of “fun” whether it was illict sex, stealing money, or control over gullible people..
Case in point: Joey Smith wanted Emma Hale because her father said he couldnt have her. Me Hale knew that Joey Smith came from a shftless lazy family who practiced the occult and that Joey was a con artist too..
Mr Hale was a good father who loved Emma and tried to protect his daughter from getting mixed up with the wrong type of guy...He advised Emma not to marry Joey...
Joey Smith saw this as a challenge...So he convinced poor Emma to run away with him...This was not a romantic elopement but the actions of a selfish creep who was ruled by his appetites..
Emma had a miserable life...Joey was so evil he even committed adultery with his floozies in Emmas own house...he ran a bar and sold his cohorts booze and drank it right in her parlor until she threatened to leave him...
Mr Hale must have been heart broken...too bad he hadnt done as the Presbyterian father had done...or the family who tarred and feathered him for trying to seduce their daughter and sister...
There was a way to take care of Joey and it wasnt with tolerance for his foul religion...
May be you missed the part that this was an assembly of Christian groups. Didn't include moslems, hindus or buddists either, so I guess you know where you fit in. If the mormons wish to set out their own declaration, go for it.
Algore is an anti...
He invented the internet just to mess with the mormons...
The internet is no friend to mormonism...
There is one fundamental question about which I’m often asked: “What do I believe about Jesus Christ?” I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the savior of mankind.
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What he left out is: ....Jesus is also
...my elder brother,
...a spirit brother of Satan,
...was conceived by God having sex with Mary,
....didn’t HAVE to die on the cross since he shed his blood in the Garden of Gethsemane,
...isn’t the ONLY High Priest,
...had to earn his Godhood
...and “saves” all mankind by letting them be resurrected since REAL heaven (the Celestial Kingdom) is only for us good Temple going Mormons.
Elsie, did I forget anything?
Oh yeah, one more thing...
LDS believe (and their leaders have taught)
That Jesus was a polygamist.
--MormonDude(I have nothing but PRAISE for that man!)
You mean like THIS?!
It's "funny." Here Joey Smith, junior, pimples & all...
#1 has a "vision" at age 14 or 15 (depending upon which account you read), supposedly telling him not to join any Christian sects.
#2 Then about 7 years later, he and his wife lose a child -- and in response begin membership classes @ the local Methodist church, which he takes for a while & was about to join the church.
#3 Only two people who knew Smith well as an "unsavory" character convicted in court in 1826 for "money looking" out him, aborting that process.
#4 Smith goes on to only LATER -- by 1833 -- say all these bad things about Christian sects supposedly given by a divine personage in that "first vision." None of it's EVER written down before then. (He waits a dozen years). So he rags on Christians as having 100% abominable creeds; 100% corrupt professing believers or leaders; and later labels them all as "apostates."
#5 And now we have Smith's disciples complaining that the Manhattan Declaration folks excluded the name-calling, creedal-putdowning Mormons.
I mean, who'd have known that the Mormons even wanted an invite from those "slimy apostates?" So tell ya what, Reno, when ya get it figured out who you want us as Christians to be identity-wise, fellow bros in Christ or apostates, just let us know. Otherwise, it continues to remain real confusin' to us. At least when Muslims call us "infidels," I have a sense of knowing where I'm at with them. With Lds, they keep wanting to play us both ways. That doesn't work in dating, courtship, marriage (despite our spiritual & physical ancestors attempt to prove elsewise), or faith coalescing.
His lying is worse than merely being a jerk. He lied about being pro-life. He’s selectively whatever he thinks will manipulate his audience. His position on the wee ones varies based upon whom he’s trying to fool. He fooled me once. It will never happen again. Lying about pro-life is far worse than merely being a jerk ... and he is a jerk, also.
We don’t hate the Mormons, we actually love them. It is MormonISM, the blasphemous theology and cult like behavior it requires that we hate.
BTW, the Nazi’s killed the Jews because the Nazi’s believed the Jews were an inferior RACE.
OTOH, we are trying to show the LDS the errors of their theology and bring them to the REAL Jesus (the one of the Bible), not hatred at all.
Finally, I don’t HATE Romney b/c he is LDS. I don’t TRUST him b/c he is LDS. I hate him b/c he’s a RINO.
Nana doesnt use strong language ...
My “jerk” would be something else from another FReeper...
Like his Mom and Dad werent married or something like that...
That needs to be said again, bump!
I’m wearing my Brown Shirt as I rfead this thread. SAo comforting don’tchaknow ... has a Remington tag on the pocket.
the holidays!!
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Christians call this time of year, CHRISTMAS
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Maybe she was referring to Joseph Smith’s Birthday. Merry Smithmas!
Here are some quotes by late LDS prophet Gordon B Hinkley. Notice how they are told to remember the birth of JS .
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/44851/Advocate-of-the-Savior.html
At this time of year, the Christian world focuses on the birth of Jesus, ....
And certainly, we are aware of the great role that the Prophet of the Restoration, Joseph Smith, fulfilled in bringing to the world a greater understanding and knowledge of the Savior. Since the Prophet’s birth is commemorated Dec. 23, it often receives little attention. But what a happy circumstance of timing: the greatest advocate of the Savior known to this dispensation was born at Sharon, Vt., within 48 hours of that day in 1805 that Christendom observed the birth of Jesus Christ...
As we celebrate the birth of the Savior, we also remember the birth of the Prophet. It is because of him, and his singular and remarkable experience, that we know the Savior as we do. There is no event to compare with the First Vision...
“I look to him {Joseph Smith}. I love him {Joseph Smith}. I seek to follow him {Joseph Smith}. I read his words, and they become the standards to be observed in guiding this great Church as it moves forward in fulfilling its eternal destiny.”
Merry Smithmas!
For several years now I have witness how the Saul Alinsky “Rules For Radicals” method is being used here to attack Romney should it be surprising that this religion be also included!
Is this not how the Marxist get there way?
Does it have little to do with preserving the Republic?
I say it ignores and makes a mockery of the Constitution!
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