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Scholar says Baptists neglect lessons from Virgin Mary
ABP ^ | July 30, 2009 | Robert Marus

Posted on 08/01/2009 1:51:11 PM PDT by NYer

EDE, Netherlands (ABP) -- A Latina theologian says overreaction to Catholic veneration of the Virgin Mary has caused Baptists to miss important biblical teaching associated with the mother of Jesus.

Nora Lozano
Nora Lozano, associate professor of biblical and theological studies at Baptist University of the Americas, found potential liberation for women -- both Protestant and Catholic -- in Latin America and elsewhere by taking another look at the biblical story of Mary, Jesus' mother.

Lozano, a participant in theological conversations between the Baptist World Alliance and the Vatican, made the remarks in a presentation to the BWA Commission on Doctrine and Interchurch Cooperation at a meeting of global Baptists in the Netherlands.

She noted the Mexican story of the Virgin of Guadalupe -- a purported apparition of Mary to an indigenous peasant in Mexico City in the 16th century -- and how closely it ties the identity of the nation's Catholicism with Mary, who serves as a sort of "demi-goddess."

There are analogous Virgin Mary cults of devotion in other Latin American countries.

Lozano said Mexican Baptists and other Protestants, meanwhile, actively ignore Mary, to the extent of giving the biblical character short shrift.

"It seems that there is a consensus among these Baptists to disregard, neglect or reject the Virgin Mary," Lozano said, speaking of an informal survey she had done of some of her global Baptist colleagues.

And, in countries where Catholics are a majority, she added, "Baptists tend to move back and forth between actively rejecting and simply ignoring Mary."

In those countries, Lozano noted, "This becomes one of the major barriers to relations between Catholics and Baptists."

Because Mary is so perfect in popular Catholic theology in Latin America -- perpetually a virgin, although a mother; blameless, even sinless -- Lozano said she becomes an impossible standard of womanhood. Nonetheless, many men look for this standard in the mother of their children.

On the other hand, Lozano noted, Mary's opposite -- the wanton harlot -- is what many men tend to look for in sex partners. Being forced to choose between the two stereotypes can be deadly for women.

"When these [images of Mary and her opposite] are misused, they become oppressive and a source of suffering for women," she said. "Neither one of these models is a good one for women, because they do not present women as complete human beings."

Lozano said that embracing the "life-giving" aspects of Marian veneration can be both healthy for all women and a bridge between Latin American Protestants and Catholics, she contended.

Lozano pointed to two passages dealing with Mary in the Christmas story as recorded in Luke's Gospel: The angel's announcement to Mary that she would bear Christ (Luke 1:26-38), and Mary's song of praise to God, often called the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55).

Mary is not a passive presence in those stories, Lozano pointed out, but an active and willing participant in God's work who was "well aware of social injustices," she said.

"She is subject with a strong will and a social consciousness," Lozano noted.

Lozano delivered her remarks on the second day of the BWA's Annual Gathering in Ede, Netherlands. Hundreds of Baptists from around the world came to conduct BWA General Council business as well as observe the 400th anniversary of the Baptist movement, which began in the summer of 1609 in nearby Amsterdam.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: baptist; vatican; virginmary
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1 posted on 08/01/2009 1:51:11 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 08/01/2009 1:51:56 PM PDT by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8.


3 posted on 08/01/2009 1:57:55 PM PDT by cranked
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To: NYer

I am a Baptist, I am really inspired by Our Lady of Guadolupe or however spell it


4 posted on 08/01/2009 1:58:07 PM PDT by mel
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To: NYer

I’m a Baptist, and you Catholics can believe what you want.


5 posted on 08/01/2009 1:59:25 PM PDT by devane617 (Republicans first strategy should be taking over the MSM. Without it we are doomed.)
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To: NYer

Ignoring the immaculate conception of Mary leads to ignoring the immaculate conception of Jesus....Just Saying...


6 posted on 08/01/2009 1:59:38 PM PDT by x_plus_one (Only ACORN could put a long legged mac daddy, quasi-muslim, communist freak into the white house...)
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To: NYer
>A Latina theologian says overreaction to Catholic veneration of the Virgin Mary has caused Baptists to miss important biblical teaching associated with the mother of Jesus

But is she a wise
Latina theologian?
Now, what does JLo

have to say about
the theology of that
Co-Redemptrix thing?

7 posted on 08/01/2009 2:03:34 PM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: NYer

I’d rather eat broken glass than have a conversation with her.

It’s like aiming at the barn and hitting a gnat in the next county.


8 posted on 08/01/2009 2:03:53 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: x_plus_one
So was Mary's mother then immaculated? Her mother, her mother's mother ??? How can someone be born sinless from a mother who was not???

Just saying .....

9 posted on 08/01/2009 2:05:35 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: TASMANIANRED
I’d rather eat broken glass than have a conversation with her.

"Her" meaning the author of this article?

10 posted on 08/01/2009 2:17:31 PM PDT by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer
She forgot the Wedding at Cana as an example of Mary playing an active role in the New Testament.

Because Mary is so perfect in popular Catholic theology in Latin America -- perpetually a virgin, although a mother; blameless, even sinless -- Lozano said she becomes an impossible standard of womanhood. Nonetheless, many men look for this standard in the mother of their children.

On the other hand, Lozano noted, Mary's opposite -- the wanton harlot -- is what many men tend to look for in sex partners. Being forced to choose between the two stereotypes can be deadly for women.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth in this. There is discussion on it on the Catholic singles sites all the time. I wouldn't go as far as the wanton harlot, but there is only one of Mary just as there is only one of Christ - and don't forget that she is still a Jewish mother who was not afraid to go to her son, who is God, and tell him to "do something." Yes, she submitted to God's will in the ultimate example of humility and acceptance, and was sinless - that doesn't mean she was meek and quiet.

11 posted on 08/01/2009 2:20:48 PM PDT by Desdemona (True Christianity requires open hearts and open minds - not blind hatred.)
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To: mel
I am a Baptist, I am really inspired by Our Lady of Guadolupe or however spell it

Then you will be truly inspired by the events that accompanied her appearance in Mexico. Here's the link.

12 posted on 08/01/2009 2:21:13 PM PDT by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer
As a Baptist, I appreciate Mary. I appreciate her husband, Joseph, who kept her a virgin UNTIL after she gave birth to Jesus. I appreciate her son James, Jesus' brother, as well as the other children she bore. I appreciate The Apostle John who took care of her in Ephesus.

I do not appreciate those who call her such idolatrous titles as "The Queen of Heaven," "The Queen of the Angels," "The Perpetual Virgin," etc. Such modes of deification do not advance Christianity. Rather, they infuse Christianity with an obscene paganism that dilutes the true gospel, sometimes beyond recognition.

13 posted on 08/01/2009 2:23:23 PM PDT by Guyin4Os (My name says Guyin40s but now I have an exotic, daring, new nickname..... Guyin50s)
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To: cranked

Mary is not a graven image, but a person—a person to whom Luke devotes two chapters of his gospel.


14 posted on 08/01/2009 2:24:35 PM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE homo)
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To: mel
Our Catholic kids will be going to a Baptist Vacation Bible School next week. We notice the lack of discussion and veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary (compared to our standards), but otherwise the VBS is great with excellent moral leadership.

Down at the bottom of my profile page is a link to a great kids' cartoon called "Juan Diego, Messenger of Guadalupe".

15 posted on 08/01/2009 2:27:58 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: NYer

Baptists don’t put much emphasis on Mary because Scripture doesn’t.

Apart from the birth story, here is what we have:

Mat 2:11/14 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh...And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt

Mat 2:20/21 saying, “Rise, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the child’s life are dead.” And he rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel.

Mat 12:46/48 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him...But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”

Mat 13:55 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?

Mar 3:31-35 And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you.” And he answered them, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! “Whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.”

Mar 6:3 “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

Luk 2:48/51 And when his parents saw him, they were astonished. And his mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been searching for you in great distress.”...And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them. And his mother treasured up all these things in her heart.

Luk 8:19-21 Then his mother and his brothers came to him, but they could not reach him because of the crowd. And he was told, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see you.” But he answered them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”

Luk 11.27-28 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Jon 2.1-5 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there...When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”...His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Jhn 2:12 After this he went down to Capernaum, with his mother and his brothers and his disciples, and they stayed there for a few days.

Jhn 6:42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’ ?”

Jhn 19:25-27 but standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.

Act 1:14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.


It is hard to take that and get anything that would put great emphasis on Mary. A good woman? Yes. Worthy of particular admiration and veneration? Well...notice the emphasis Jesus puts on her:

“As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”


16 posted on 08/01/2009 2:28:54 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Guyin4Os

You don’t know that she bore other children. as for the titles, one you don’t mention is “Mother of God,” or in Greek, theotokos. “Bearer of God” to the world. By refusing to accept Mary, Protestant risk lapsing into the Arianism to which so many of them are prone, a doctrine that denies true divinity to Our Lord.


17 posted on 08/01/2009 2:29:57 PM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE homo)
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To: Mr Rogers

As if that excluded Mary, the first to hear the Word.


18 posted on 08/01/2009 2:31:18 PM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE homo)
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To: Guyin4Os

I call her “The Queen of Heaven,” “The Queen of the Angels,” “The Perpetual Virgin,” etc., but am a Christian and do not deify her nor consider myself a “pagan”, an “idolator”, a promoter of “false gospel”, or guilty of “obscenity”. I hope that ruins your day.


19 posted on 08/01/2009 2:32:54 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: x_plus_one
Ignoring the immaculate conception of Mary leads to ignoring the immaculate conception of Jesus....Just Saying...

Scriptural reference, please.

20 posted on 08/01/2009 2:32:54 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (You're either in or in the way.)
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