Posted on 10/15/2008 11:17:09 AM PDT by Gamecock
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognise them…" Matthew 7:15-16
CORRUPTION
STEPHEN VII (896-897AD) "He dug up a Corsican predecessor, Pope Formosus (891-896), when he had been dead for over nine months…. He dressed the stinking corpse in full pontificals, placed him on the throne in the Lateran and proceeded to interrogate him personally….After being found guilty, the corpse was condemned as an anti-pope, stripped and minus the two fingers with which he had given his fake apostolic blessing, was thrown into the Tiber…." (Vicars of Christ - the Dark Side of the Papacy by Father Peter de Rosa).
SERGIUS III (904-911) Standing in his way to the throne had been Leo V, who reigned for one month before he was imprisoned by an usurper, Cardinal Christopher. Sergius had both killed. Then he exhumed his predecessor and had him beheaded, three fingers chopped off and thrown into the Tiber.
JOHN XII (955 - 963) He invented sins, it was said, that had not been known since the beginning of the world - including sleeping with his mother. John XII ran a harem in the Lateran Palace, he gambled with the offerings of pilgrims and he even toasted the devil at the high altar during the mass.
BENEDICT V (964) Described by a church historian as "the most iniquitous of all the monsters of ungodliness."
BENEDICT IX (1032-44, 1045, 1047-8) Elected pope at age eleven, he was twice driven from his position due to his participation in plunder, immorality, oppression and murder. Church historians described him as "That wretch, from the beginning of his pontificate to the end of his life, feasted on immorality," and "a demon from hell in the disguise of a priest has occupied the chair of Peter."
SIXTUS IV (1471 - 1484) This is the pope who built the Sistine Chapel in which all popes are now elected. Sixtus IV had several illegitimate sons, licensed the brothels of Rome and received a large amount of revenue for the papacy from these houses of iniquity, introduced the novel idea of selling indulgences for the dead to raise more revenue, and sanctioned the Inquisition in Castile (Spain) by issuing a bull in 1478 (in just one year - 1482 - in one city of Andalusia, 2000 "heretics" were burned as a result).
ALEXANDER VI (1492 - 1503) He was a murderer by age 12, he had 10 known illegitimate children, he was infamous for his drunken and immoral parties, he was known to have cardinals who had purchased their positions to be poisoned so that he could sell their positions again and increase his turnover. He spent a fortune in bribes to secure his own election as pope and he caused the Reformer Savonarola to be burned at the stake.
CRUELTY
The Romans papacy has been characterised by extreme cruelty in its persecution of those it deemed as heretics. In particular the Waldensians, Lollards and Albigensians were slaughtered by the forces of Rome.
In 1208 Pope Innocent III declared: "Death to the heretics!" Great privileges and rewards were promised to those who would annihilate the "heretics" and to every man who killed one of them, the assurance was given that he would attain the highest place in Heaven!
The first target of this crusade against the Albigensians was the town of Begiers. All it's inhabitants were killed and all the buildings burned. The monk leading this slaughter, Arnold, reported back to Innocent III "Today, Your Holiness, twenty thousand citizens were put to the sword, regardless of age or sex."
In Bram the papal soldiers cut off the noses and gouged out the eyes of the Albigensian "heretics".
In Minerve, 140 Albigensians were burned alive.
In Lavaure 400 "heretics" were burned at the stake.
In response, Innocent III praised the papal soldiers who had destroyed the heretics.
The successor of Innocent III, Pope Gregory IX established the Inquisition in 1232. For over 600 years, spanning the reigns of over 80 popes, the Inquisition tortured and killed tens of thousands of Protestants including the Waldensians, Hussites, Lollards and Huguenots.
CONTRADICTION
Pope Gregory VII (1073-85) declared that "The Pope cannot make a mistake".
The First Vatican Council (1869-70) under Pope Pius IX raised the Dogma of Papal infallibility to become the official teaching of Roman Catholicism adding the usual anathema upon all who dared to disagree:
"But if anyone ….presume to contradict this assertion, let him be accused."
Yet between 1378 to 1408 there were first two popes and then three! Gregory XII reigned from Rome, Benedict XIII from Avignon and John XXIII from Pisa.
John XXIII was described in Vicars of Christ: "He was noted as a former pirate, pope-poisoner, mass-murderer, mass-fornicator…, adulterer on a scale unknown outside fables, simoniac par excellence, blackmailer, pimp, master of dirty tricks."
Yet John XXIII accused his rival pope Benedict XIII of being "a Fake" and Gregory XII he nicknamed "Mistake"!
Pope Pius IX, who at the First Vatican Council (1869 - 1870) caused the dogma of Papal Infallibility to become the official teaching of Roman Catholicism, also issued an edict permitting "excommunication, confiscation, banishment, imprisonment for life, as well as secret execution in heinous cases."
At the First Vatican Council, Bishop Strossmayer (himself a papist) gave a speech arguing against papal infallibility. He pointed out: "Gregory I calls anyone anti-Christ who takes the name of Universal Bishop; and contrawise Boniface III made Emperor Phocas confer that title upon him. Paschal II and Eugenius III authorised duelling; Julius II and Pins IV forbad it. Hadrian II declared civil magistrates to be valid; Pius VII condemned them. Sixtus V published an edition of the Bible and recommended it to be read; Pius VII condemned the reading of the Bible."
It could also be noted that while one (supposedly infallible) pope, Eugene IV (1431 - 1447), condemned Joan of Arc as a heretic to be burned alive, another pope, Benedict XV, in 1920, declared her to be a saint and her burning a mistake.
Yet the Dogma of Papal Infallibility declares that when a pope speaks ex cathedra his words are "as infallible as if it had been uttered by Christ Himself!"
In plain contradiction to this "papal infallibility" is the Bible. The apostle Peter (from whom all popes claim their succession) never suggested that he was infallible. Indeed in his first general epistle Peter described himself simply as "an elder" and he exhorted his "fellow elders" not to act as "lords over those entrusted to you" (1 Peter 5:1-3).
Paul records in Galatians 2:11 "But when Peter had come to Antioch I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed…" Plainly Paul did not see Peter as infallible. Also Peter was married (Mark 1:30; 1 Corinthians 9:5). Indeed a requirement of a church leader is that he is married and bring up his children in the faith (1 Timothy 3:4-5).
The Lord Jesus taught: "You know that the rulers of the gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave - just as the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve…" Matthew 20:25-28
Jesus taught that no one is good - except God alone (Mark 10:18) and we are to call no-one on earth Father - God alone is our spiritual Father. How then can any pope be called "his Holiness" or "Holy Father"! The term Holy Father is only used once in the Bible and it is clearly addressed to God the Father in Christ's prayer (John 17:11).
It is no wonder that when Archbishop Thomas Cranmer was about to be burned at the stake, on 21 March 1556, he declared: "As for the pope, I refuse him as Christ's enemy, and Anti-Christ, with all his false doctrines."
In the words of Martin Luther: "Unless I am convinced by Scripture or clear reasoning that I am in error - for popes and councils have often erred and contradicted themselves - I cannot recant for I am subject to the Scriptures I have quoted. My conscience is captive to the Word of God. It is unsafe and dangerous to do anything against one's conscience. Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise. So help me God. Amen."
Sources: Vicars of Christ - the Dark Side of the Papacy by Father Peter de Rosa, Corgi Books, London, 1989
Roman Catholicism by Loraine Boetner, Banner of Truth, London, 1966
The Pope by Ian Brown, Londonderry, 1991
“Did Gregory VII say that Popes “cannot make a mistake”? No - that's a lie as well.”
Might this be a bit closer?:
“In 1075 Pope Gregory VII in his Dictatus Papae (The Pope's Memorandum) put it more bluntly. He set out 27 propositions about the powers of the office of Bishop of Rome. These included the statement that the papacy “never will err to all eternity according to the testimony of Holy Scripture”.
I haven't looked at the other examples you remarked upon yet yet but the paraphrasing was somewhat justified in this particular case.
No, we define it one way. It is you who deliberately mix up infallibility and impeccability - which are two completely different concepts.
It almost seems like Roman Catholics are threatened by the fact that their Popes are sinful, and that some were especially evil men, as though somehow that fact diminishes the sacred seat of Peter and the legitimacy of Papal procession.
Nice psychobabble.
First, all Popes are by definition sinners, and can never be anything else but sinners.
Second, no Pope can credibly be described as an "especially evil" man - the entire point of this propaganda exercise is to take the actual transgressions of medieval Popes (susceptibility to bribes, having had girlfriends in their younger days, encouraging rather than defusing confrontations for their own gain) and transform them into mind-blowing transgressions like maternal incest, graverobbing, pandering, murder, forcible rape, devil worship, etc.
Third, while there have been Popes who have dishonored their office, Catholics know that the office is distinct from its holders. Popes like Gregory VII are admired precisely for their reforming zeal.
And if one protests these slanders, they're labeled discontented Romanists.
That kind of sneering hatred is worthy of the Obama movement.
Uh, sir, there is not one Catholic denying that Catholics are men subject to sin like the rest of us. We're defensive because there seems to be a certain "Reformist" M.O. of pointing to examples of wicked Popes and scream "See! See!This is the Whore of Babylon!"
Sometimes I wonder
how much of the wailing is because of the idolatry of an INSTITUTION
and how much of it is pride.
If it’s reformation month, maybe we should focus on the atrocities of the reformation rather than the mother church. How many did Cranmer have burned, hmmm? Who burned the heretics at the stake, the inquisition? Nay, it was the civil authorities. How did the good brother Luther view his Jewish brothers and sisters, eh?
Let's see.
“In 1075 Pope Gregory VII in his Dictatus Papae (The Pope's Memorandum) put it more bluntly. He set out 27 propositions about the powers of the office of Bishop of Rome. These included the statement that the papacy “never will err to all eternity according to the testimony of Holy Scripture”.
(1) Gregory VII never wrote a work entitled "Dictatus Papae". Its title itself suggests its true origin: that it was written by some papal secretary.
(2) No source even mentions the existence of this document until 1087, two years after Gregory VII's death. His actual letters that he personally wrote in 1075 were well-known and a matter of public record during his lifetime. Not only did Gregory VII definitely not write it himself, there is no evidence he was even aware of the document's existence.
(3) The actual text reads: "That the Roman church has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity, the Scripture bearing witness."
This is precisely the Catholic doctrine that the Church is prevented from any error in its dogmatioc teaching, as guaranteed by Matthew 16:18.
So your source does not give the full quote - it substitutes "papacy" for the "Roman Church" of the original. Moreover it insinuates that "the papacy" means individual Popes.
The Church is the institution. The Papacy is an office within that institution. And the individual Popes are all just officeholders.
Conflating the three doesn't work.
Catholics define “infallible” in one way only. Once again your misunderstanding leads you astray. It would seem you rail against not what the Catholic Church truly believes but instead what you “think” it believes. I know of no Catholic that is threatened by the fact that some Popes were sinful, we all know that, but that does not diminish the Church. If you think it does then you have a truly shallow understanding of my faith.
Not just a pirate:
John XXIII was described in Vicars of Christ: "He was noted as a former pirate, pope-poisoner, mass-murderer, mass-fornicator…, adulterer on a scale unknown outside fables, simoniac par excellence, blackmailer, pimp, master of dirty tricks."
He has been dead for 45 years, why are we just now hearing about this? Which pope is he accused of poisoning? Who are the women he pimped and had sex with?
Looking further in the Catholic Encyclopedia on John XII as regards:
“Did John XII sleep with his own mother? No.”
“On November 6 a synod composed of fifty Italian and German bishops was convened in St. Peter’s; John was accused of sacrilege, simony, perjury, murder, adultery, and incest, and was summoned in writing to defend himself. Refusing to recognize the synod, John pronounced sentence of excommunication (ferendae sententiae) against all participators in the assembly, should they elect in his stead another pope.”
No, his mother isn’t mentioned but the incest charge is just one of many. And by a synod not anti-Catholic bigots.
Hmmm.....As they say, two out of three IS bad, but I’ll give you John 23, unless he lived a very long time.
Do you ever concede that perhaps some of it is because of a desire that the truth be told?
Lie #1: The "Bishop Strossmayer speech" is a forgery by an Argentinian anti-Catholic. Google "Strossmayer speech forgery" for many, many proofs.
Lie #2: The "John XXIII" they refer to was not a real "Pope of Rome" but an anti-Pope.
Do you want me to go looking for more?
It's sort of like talking about how wrong Al Gore is about global warming, and how that proves what fools Presidents of the US are.
STEPHEN VII (896-897AD) "He dug up a Corsican predecessor, Pope Formosus (891-896), when he had been dead for over nine months….
First, the Pope accused of this was Stephen VI, not Stephen VII.
Second, Formosus was not a Corsican, but a Roman.
Third Formosus had been dead for months, but no one knows exactly how long or exactly when this "corpse trial" was held.
Why even lie about these details in the first place? Why fabricate stuff that is unnecessary to fabricate.
And, of course, the "corpse trial" was not held at the request of, or organized by, the elderly and infirm Pope Stephen VI but by Guido IV - the would-be dictator of Rome who hated Formosus for opposing his attempts to seize Italy.
Guido IV was a maniac who did all kinds of disturbed things like this. He was assassinated by rivals a few months after this.
The "corpse trial" was the work of an angry civil dictator, not the Pope.
Misrepresentations folded in completely gratuitous lies.
It's sort of like talking about how wrong Al Gore is about global warming, and how that proves what fools Presidents of the US are.
Excellent point!
I have NEVER had a problem acknowledging that some popes (Alexander VI come immediately to mind) were corrupt and even evil. The fact that NOBODY has EVER been able to find a false ex cathedra statement regarding faith or morals only REINFORCES the doctrine of infallibility.
Anti-Catholics are just like other liberals, an accusation against someone they hate is far more important than the truth.
I don’t understand the reason behind the hate. These attacks seem to come out of no where.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.