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Top Ten Scientific Explanations for Fatima
CMR ^ | October 14, 2008 | matthew archbold

Posted on 10/14/2008 6:23:13 AM PDT by NYer

The Miracle of the Dancing Sun at Fatima which was seen by 70,000 people on October 13th, 1917 has been written about often. I truly do enjoy reading about all the "scientific" explanations for the "anomaly of Fatima." The way that science has bent itself into a pretzel to explain away the vision of the sun dancing in the sky at a foretold time is always fun.

So, last year, I got together my top ten "scientific explanations" for Fatima that I was able to find on the internet.

First I'll start with a little history history: A writer named Avelino de Almeida who wrote articles for O Século, (a big newspaper in Portugal at the time). The papper took a strong anti-religious stance. Goodness, even then, the media wasn't a big fan of religion, huh? In fact, all of Almeida's previous articles had mocked the previously reported events at Fatima but here's what he wrote that day 81 years ago:

"Before the astonished eyes of the crowd, whose aspect was biblical as they stood bare-headed, eagerly searching the sky, the sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements outside all cosmic laws — the sun 'danced' according to the typical expression of the people."
But despite the fact that one of their own reported this, secularists have amassed an enormous amount of explanations as to why we should not believe our own eyes. Here are the astounding reasons they've amassed so we should believe nothing at all special happened in Portugal that great day.

10. Stratospheric Dust. Steuart Campbell, writing for the 1989 edition of Journal of Meteorology, theorizes that a cloud of stratospheric dust altered the appearance of the sun on 13 October, making it easier to look at, and causing it to appear yellow, blue, and violet and to spin. In support of his hypothesis, Mr. Campbell reports that a blue and reddened sun was reported in China as documented in 1983.

9. Not everyone saw it so nothing happened. Oddly, this is the exact opposite of their argument that people in China saw it so it didn't happen. Astronomers, they say, noticed no dancing in the sky from all over the world. The dancing sun was a regional event thus disproving it. A quick question would be the fact that it was a regional event should prove that something out of the ordinary happened. If it happened worldwide it would be written off as simply an astronomical event because the whole world saw it.

8. ESP! (Always my favorite) Author Lisa Schwebel claims that the event was a supernatural form of extra-sensory phenomenon. God? no way! ESP? Yup! Schwebel has said that throughout the history of man there have been several reported cases of religious gatherings culminating in the sudden and mysterious appearance of lights in the sky so therefore it's ESP. The logic evades me a little but I guess if you're a believer in The Exorcist Part II, then it's as believable as Richard Burton as a priest.

7. Mock-Sun. Didn't even know this one existed but it's worth a listen. Joe Nickell, a self described skeptic and paranormal investigator, according to Wikipedia,
claims that the position of the phenomenon as described by the various witnesses, is at the wrong azimuth and elevation to have been the sun. He suggests the cause may have been a sundog. Sometimes referred to as a parhelion or "mock sun", a sundog is an atmospheric optical phenomenon associated with the reflection/refraction of sunlight by the numerous small ice crystals that make up cirrus or cirrostratus clouds. A sundog is, however, a stationary phenomenon, and would not explain the reported appearance of the "dancing sun". So Nickell further suggests an explanation for this phenomena may lie in temporary retinal distortion, caused by staring at the intense light and/or the effect of darting the eyes to and fro so as to avoid completely fixed gazing (thus combining image, afterimage and movement).
So, in effect, 70,000 people all shook their heads and thought a mock-sun was dancing. All 70,000? Prety ridiculous, huh?

6. Dust cloud! Paul Simons, in an article entitled "Weather Secrets of Miracle at Fatima", said that it's possible that some of the optical effects at Fatima may have been caused by a cloud of dust from the Sahara.

5. The old mass hallucination theory. Author Kevin McClure is one of many on this claim which goes something like this: The crowd at Cova da Iria was expecting to see signs in the sun so they did. Yeah because that happens all the time. But McClure doesn't factor in that people several miles away who weren't thinking about the event also saw it.

4. UFO! The old alien craft pretending to be a sign from God trick. Happens all the time, didn't you know. Of course, the spaceship just happened to come on the day that the three children said a miracle would occur. Or perhaps the apparitions were all the works of little green men. This all sounds a lot more real than the Church's explanation.

3. Solar Storm. A gigantic coronal mass ejection (CME) occurred. Better known as the Northern Lights in Portugal. You see, solar flares emit high-speed particles that cause the Northern Lights or Aurora Borealis. Well that explains it all right there. Because we all know the Northern Lights look exactly like the Sun dancing. Or not.

2. Peer pressure. There was significant social pressure to see a miracle so everyone fooled themselves into believing they did. 70,000 people? That's some pretty strong peer pressure especially for the people who saw it 20 miles away.

1. An Eclipse. These fellas don't mind contradicting themselves. This would be a very very regional eclipse. Wouldn't astronomers have noted the eclipse?

Bonus Reason:
-1. Evolution. This is sadly from Institute of Physics, Catholic University of Louvain. Evolution has provided us with the infamous “zoom and loom effect”. It occurs when you see an image at some unknown distance. Your brain considers the possibility that it might come closer so without your knowledge your brain performs "an illusory mental zoom, where the apparent size of the object is progressively increased." Here's why this occurs, says scientists: Evolution forces us to be constantly worried that something dangerous is coming to eat us so we might need to skedaddle right quick so the brain zooms it in to scare us into skedaddling. When the “idea” of an approach does not lead to any real danger, the perceived object returns to its normal place. Thus the dancing sun. Amazing. 70,000 people thought the Sun was coming to eat them. When they realized the Sun had no teeth they "zoomed and loomed" it back to where it belonged. That might just be my favorite one.

So after listening to these level-headed scientists(?) explain away Fatima hasn't it convinced you to join the Richard Dawkins fan club? Me neither.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: atheism; fatima
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To: Quix

Quiz,You forgot to mention the part of the book where they found tiny aliens inside the web that was around parts of the apparitions.Forget about that.Let’s say we were all mass induced-how can you believe that we would do evil because of an apparition that is approved by the church.Are we robots?


61 posted on 10/14/2008 6:46:19 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: NYer

Great topic...

but the Catholic Vote video that popped up at the top of the thread...

WOW...just WOW.

I’m misting up just watching it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61wj4tJICcc


62 posted on 10/14/2008 7:22:12 PM PDT by AlaninSA (Remember Southeast Texas in your prayers.)
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To: fatima

Have you read even 10% of the quotes of our political, literary, media leaders since 1900 ref’d in my tagline at post #76 here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77

?????

Mass manipulations of the masses carefully structured and aided by the satanic supernatural or the ‘ET’s’ technologies can be very powerful persuaders, indeed. I do suspect that’s a topic I’m somewhat more professionally qualified to comment on than perhaps even you.

I don’t quite follow your asserttions and question. They seem rather disjointed and out of sync with my construction on reality.

I haven’t coughed up the money for the books having little income and other priorities. I’ve only read the excerpts on the net.

I’m not impressed at all by things approved by the Vatican/Roman bureaucracy as having value; being true. Too many such things have proven to be the opposite over the centuries—that is—having destructive value and being untrue.

Robots? There’s a lot of gullible folks of every value orientation.

All the more so when something dramatic and seemingly supernatural appears within their expectations and

THEIR “PERCEPTUAL SET” all primed, cocked and ready to receive such as authentically what they were yearning for and expecting.


63 posted on 10/14/2008 8:17:31 PM PDT by Quix (POL LDRS GLOBALIST QUOTES: #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: Quix
You haven't answered my question.One since you have not read the books and I am only half way through the first and it states one study of micro aliens in webs that were in the surroundings areas of Fatima you stand by the authors with your postings.2nd if as you have stated that it was an apparition to control us as robots we will sin and go to hell by said apparition.
64 posted on 10/14/2008 8:29:16 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: fatima

1) I don’t know how much of the books I’d consider valid if I had them to read. The excerpts I read about the witnesses reports before they were distorted by the Jesuits and a lot of hoopla . . . were quite convincing.

2) I don’t know what your hangup thing is about robots.

3) INFLUENCE—persuasive INFLUENCE—does not require a robotic response per se. Often, all that’s necessary is a little nudge here and there to skew a person’s construction on reality in a desired direction. Doesn’t make the individuals concerned wholesale lock-step robots but does get them supporting the desired thing in the desired direction. And, makes them more vulnerable to such influences the next time.

4) I’m rather persistently dismayed (now that you seem so doggedly interested in robotic responses) of masses of people—I’m rather persistently dismayed at what comes across to this psychologist/sociologist as very robotic lock-step compliance in a list of ways WITHOUT A SHRED of critical thinking on the part of so many following the Vatican/Rome’s pontifications and edicts.

5) I have no personal evidence or puzzle pieces convincingly showing that there WERE or WERE NOT micro-aliens. An interesting idea. So now, folks can argue about how many aliens can stand on the head of a pin. Impressive.


65 posted on 10/14/2008 8:39:05 PM PDT by Quix (POL LDRS GLOBALIST QUOTES: #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: Quix
Quix I have to add I am surprised at you.You quote authors you have not read who bored me and manipulated evidence for what I don;t know.Are they atheist or out to make a buck.
66 posted on 10/14/2008 8:40:35 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: fatima

Sinning and being in danger of hell because of the apparition is a possibility

GIVEN any number of plausible scenarios.

However, I don’t consider such a robotic certainty by any means—particularly for any given individual.

If we are talking about a million people, I’d assert that certainly, out of that million there are likely to be an unknown number who will be seriously vulnerable to satanic, demonic, evil forces influencing toward hell because of the seeds planted and the PERCEPTUAL SET GIVEN, INSTALLED, AIDED by the Fatima apparition.

All the more so if the Mary Caricature is to be enlisted in the service of the satanic global government—which would be highly probable IF the ET’s were really responsible for the whole Fatima phenomena as seem to be the most plausible explanation given the evidence I’ve read.


67 posted on 10/14/2008 8:42:34 PM PDT by Quix (POL LDRS GLOBALIST QUOTES: #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: fatima

That’s quite a distortion.

I read extensive excerpts—pages and pages of excerpts.

NOT the whole books.

I didn’t read the evidence they provided layers and multiple sources for as

‘manipulated evidence.’

I can understand how someone with your biases would see it otherwise.

I remind you that for most of my 61 years, I considered Fatima to be more or less true as given in the Vatican version.

I’m not an idiot.
I’m not inexperienced.
I’m not an uncritical thinker.
I’m not low in IQ.

Something changed my mind.

It was the earliest, most candid Fatima evidence compared with a lot of stuff out of my 40+ years of studying the UFO phenomena.

You are free to deny whatever you wish about all that.


68 posted on 10/14/2008 8:50:57 PM PDT by Quix (POL LDRS GLOBALIST QUOTES: #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: fatima

They did not come across to me as atheists nor as out to make a buck.

They came across to me as very curious about the subject and the more they investigated, the more they became determined to try and set the record straight.


69 posted on 10/14/2008 8:52:04 PM PDT by Quix (POL LDRS GLOBALIST QUOTES: #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: Quix

You said if we believe in Fatima and The Blessed Mother some evil force was in charge of us .Hence we are robots with no free will.I said that your book that you were quoting from had a person who saw micro aliens from the web around the area and gosh that made you happy.Little aliens in the microscope.The strange thing is you never read the book which you could of picked up for a buck and now can not back up what what you said.I’ll send you all mine that I ordered from your suggestion -free.You go in circles Quix.


70 posted on 10/14/2008 8:54:03 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: Quix
So you feel that some will be under the bad Guys influence in this apparition and we are talking only this one.So the aliens only have control of certain ones.By the way there were only 70,000 back there in 1917.I met a few that saw the miracle .They seemed normal.
71 posted on 10/14/2008 9:01:13 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: Quix

Change your mind back friend.These books are not for you.As a grownup and as a believer in Ufo’s if you read the books you would not back them because I know the people and have talked to them and have been there.The facts are not there as they report.


72 posted on 10/14/2008 9:13:18 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: fatima; Salvation

YET AGAIN YOU MANGLE MY WORDS.

This really does seem to be a habit of Vatican reps . . . mangling Scripture and Proddy words . . .


Fatima:
You said if we believe in Fatima and The Blessed Mother some evil force was in charge of us.


SHOW ME where I said precisely those words or even that meaning.

I did not.

I did NOT say that anyone who believed in Fatima &/or the authentic Mary had some evil force in charge of them.

I did NOT say that.

I do say that folks who believe in Fatima as promulgated by the church are at increased risk to follow ET/globalist pied pipers down the yellow brick road toward the global government and after it’s overtly present—to follow it’s edicts, religious explanations, constructions on reality that may well be buttressed by REPEAT PERFORMANCES quite similar to Fatima . . . including a personage purporting to be Mary, mother of Jesus, but who is an imposter.


Fatima:
Hence we are robots with no free will.

I did not say that.
I did not think that.
I did not mean that.

Your words in my fingers do NOT fit.


Fatima:
I said that your book that you were quoting from had a person who saw micro aliens from the web around the area and gosh that made you happy.

WRONG. WHOLESALE WRONG. INACCURATE. FALSE.

My first thoughts/feelings about the micro aliens were surprise and incredulity.

Then some slight amusement trying to imagine such a thing.

Mostly, I found it silly but an interesting idea to ponder.


Fatima:
Little aliens in the microscope.The strange thing is you never read the book which you could of picked up for a buck and now can not back up what what you said.

I believe I supported sufficiently what I said by the quotes Salvation? posted.

I can understand your conveniently ignoring that fact.


Fatima:
I’ll send you all mine that I ordered from your suggestion -free.You go in circles Quix.


You are welcome to do that. I don’t know if I’d get around to reading them very soon. They would be interesting to peruse.

The circles seem to be quite resident on your side, from my perspective.


73 posted on 10/14/2008 9:27:23 PM PDT by Quix (POL LDRS GLOBALIST QUOTES: #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: fatima

Given your distortions of my words . . .

I can imagine how easy it must be to distort the Fatima phenomena into all manner of junk . . .

as well as a lot of other things.


74 posted on 10/14/2008 9:28:55 PM PDT by Quix (POL LDRS GLOBALIST QUOTES: #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: Quix
Really how do you know.You never read their books.The first page was full of made up lies that any first grader could have researched .I told you that from the beginning.I am sure as you are that they got letters to set the record strait but they also received money so they set out for the 2nd and 3rd.
75 posted on 10/14/2008 9:29:09 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: Quix

Sorry,so the people who Fatima are fine.Thanks Quix:)


76 posted on 10/14/2008 9:35:22 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: Quix
Lets see the aliens were there at Fatima.Right.They will mind control us at the appointed time.Right.What part did I get wrong.
77 posted on 10/14/2008 9:40:52 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: dangus

And didn’t it rain that day and make a muddy mess and then when the sun danced the ground dried instantly? I need to read the book I have about Fatima.


78 posted on 10/14/2008 9:45:27 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: dangus

And didn’t it rain that day and make a muddy mess and then when the sun danced the ground dried instantly? I need to read the book I have about Fatima.


79 posted on 10/14/2008 9:45:29 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: tiki; dangus; fatima
I will still take the words of the children over the scientists! They are so honest!

Examinations by Rev. Dr. Formigao 13 October 1917

Examinations by Rev. Dr. Formigao
13 October 1917

Seminary professor Father Manuel Formigao of Santander examined the children after the apparition of October 13th, as he had done on two previous occasions. Later on he would conduct further examinations, covering most of the same territory as those of September and October 1917.

Lucia       Jacinta       Francisco


Examination of Lucia

 

'Did our Lady appear again today in the Cova da Iria?"

"Yes"

"Was she dressed as on the other occasions?"

"She was dressed in the same way."

"Did St. Joseph and the Holy Child appear?"

"Yes."

"Did anyone else appear?"

"Our Lord appeared and blessed the people and our Lady of the two cards."

"What do you mean by our Lady of the two cards?"

"Our Lady appeared dressed like Our Lady of Sorrows but without the sword in her heart, and our Lady dressed---I don't quite know how, but I think it was Our Lady of Mount Carmel."

"They all came at the same time, did they not?"

"No. First I saw Our Lady of the Rosary, then St. Joseph and the Holy Child. After that I saw our Lord, then Our Lady of Sorrows and at the end what I think was Our Lady of Mount Carmel."

"Was the Holy Child standing or being carried by St. Joseph? "

"He was being carried by St. Joseph."

"Was He already a big child?"

"No. He was little."

"How old would He have been?"

"About a year."

"Why did you say that the Lady at one moment seemed to be dressed like Our Lady of Mount Carmel?"

"Because she had two things hanging from her hand."

"Did they appear on the oak tree?"

"No, they appeared near the sun, after the Lady had disappeared from the oak tree."

"Was our Lord standing?"

"I only saw Him from the waist."

"How long did the apparition on the oak tree last? Long enough to say the Rosary?"

"I don't think it was as long as that."

"Did the figures you saw in the sun last long?"

"No, only a short time."

"Did the Lady say who she was?"

"She said that she was the Lady of the Rosary."

"Did you ask what she wanted?"

"Yes."

"What did she say?"

"She said that we were to amend our lives and not offend our Lord any more because He was too much offended already, and that we were to say the Rosary and ask pardon for our sins."

"Did she say anything else?"

"She said that a chapel was to be built in the Cova da Iria."

"Where was the money to come from?"

"I think it would be what was left there."

"Did she say anything about our soldiers who were killed in the war?"

"No, she said nothing about them."

"Did she tell you to tell the people to look at the sun?"

"No."

"Did she say that the people were to do penance?"

"Yes."

"Did she use the word penance?"

"No. She said we were to say the Rosary and amend our lives and ask pardon of our Lord, but she did not use the word penance."

"When did the sign in the sun begin? Was it after the Lady disappeared?"

"Yes."

"Did you see the Lady come?"

"Yes."

"Where did she come from?"

"From the east."

"And the other times?"

"I didn't look the other times."

"Did you see her go?"

"Yes."

"In which direction?"

"To the east."

"How did she disappear?"

"Little by little."

"What disappeared first?"

"Her head. Then her body, and the last thing I saw was her feet."

"When she went did she go with her back toward or away from the people?"

"With her back toward the people."

"Did she take long to go?"

"Only a short time."

"Was she surrounded by any light?"

"I saw her in the middle of brilliant light. This time, too, she was blinding. Sometimes I had to rub my eyes."

"Will our Lady appear again?"

"I don't think so; she said nothing about it."

"Will you return to the Cova da Iria on the 13th?"

"No."

"Will our Lady do any miracles? Cure any sick people?"

"I don't know."

"Didn't you ask her anything?"

"I told her today that I had various petitions to give and she said she would grant some and not others."

"Did she say when she would grant them?"

"No."

"Under what title is the chapel of the Cova da Iria to be?"

"She said today that she was the Lady of the Rosary."

"Did she say that many people were to go there from all parts? "

"She didn't say that anybody was to go."

"Did you see the signs in the sun?"

"I saw it going round."

"Did you see signs on the oak tree?"

"No."

"When was the Lady the most beautiful, this time or on other occasions? "

"She was the same."

"How long was her dress?"

"It fell below the middle of her legs."

"What color was our Lady's dress when she was near the sun? "

"The mantle was blue and the dress white."

"And our Lord and St. Joseph and the Holy Child?"

"St. Joseph's was red and I think our Lord and the Child wore red too."

"When did you ask our Lady to make the people believe in her apparitions?"

"I asked her several times. I think the first time I asked was in June."

"When did she tell you the secret?"

"I think it was the second time."

  Lucia       Jacinta       Francisco


Examination of Jacinta

"Apart from our Lady,

whom did you see today when you were in the Cova da Iria?"

"I saw St. Joseph and the Holy, Child."

"Where did you see them?"

"I saw them near the sun."

"What did the Lady say?"

"She said that we were to say the Rosary every day and that the war would end today."

"To whom did she say this?"

"To Lucia and to me. Francisco didn't hear."

"Did you hear her say when our soldiers would come back?"

"No."

"What else did she say?"

"She said that a chapel was to be built in the Cova da Iria."

"Where did the Lady come from?"

"From the east."

"And where did she go when she disappeared?"

"She went to the east."

"Did she go away backward facing the people?"

"No, she turned her back to the people."

"Did she say that she would come back to the Cova da Iria? "

"She said before that it was the last time she would come, and today, too, she said it was the last time."

"Did the Lady say anything else?"

"She said today that we were to say the Rosary every day to Our Lady of the Rosary."

"Where did she say that people were to say the Rosary?"

"She did not say where."

"Did she say that they were to go to the church?"

"She never said that."

"Where do you like to say the Rosary best; here, at home, or in the Cova da Iria,"

"In the, Cova da Iria."

"Why do you like to say it there?"

"I don't know."

"With what money did, the Lady say the chapel was to be built?"

"She said a chapel was to be built, but I don't know about the money."

"Did you look at the sun?"

"Yes."

"Did you see the signs?"

"Yes."

"Did the Lady tell you to look at the sun?"

"No."

"Then how did you see the signs?"

"I turned my eyes to the side."

"Was the Holy Child on the right or the left of St. Joseph? "

"On the right."

"Was he standing or being carried? "

"He was standing.'

"Did you see St. Joseph's right arm?"

"No,"

"How tall was the Child? Did His head come up to St. Joseph's chest? "

"He didn't reach St. Joseph's waist."

"How old do you think the Child was?"

"The age of Deolinda Neves." ( A child of about two years.)

  Lucia       Jacinta       Francisco


Examination of Francisco

"Did you see our Lady this time?" 

"Yes."

"What Lady was she?"

"She was the Lady of the Rosary."

"How was she dressed?"

"She was dressed in white with a rosary in her hand."

"Did you see St. Joseph and the Holy Child?"

"Yes."

"Where did you see them?"

"By the sun."

"Was the Child being carried by St. Joseph or was He standing? Was He big or little?"

"He was little."

"Was He the size of Deolinda Neves?"

"Yes, He was just her size."

"Did the Lady hold her hands?"

"She had them joined."

"Did you only see her on the oak tree or by the sun as well?"

"I saw her near the sun too."

"Which was the brighter, the sun or the face of the Lady?"

"The Lady's face was brighter; she was white."

"Did you hear what the Lady said?"

"I heard nothing that she said."

"Who told you the secret; was it the Lady?"

"No, it was Lucia."

"Will you tell it?"

"No."

"You are afraid of being beaten by Lucia if you tell it, aren't you?"

"No."

"Then why don't you tell it? Is it a sin?"

"Perhaps it is a sin to tell the secret."

"Is the secret for the good of your soul, and Jacinta's and Lucia's soul?"

"Yes."

"Is it for the good of Father Ferreira's soul?"

"I don't know."

"Would the people be sad if they knew?"

"Yes."

"From which side did the Lady come?"

"From the east."

"And did she disappear in the same direction?"

"Yes, she went to the east."

"Did she go backward?"

"She turned her back to us."

"Did she go slowly or quickly?"

"Slowly."

"Did she walk as we do?"

"She didn't walk. She just went without moving her feet."

"What part of the Lady disappeared first?"

"The head."

"Did you see her easily this time?"

"I saw her better than last month."

"When was she most beautiful, now or the other times?"

"As beautiful now as last month."

  Lucia       Jacinta       Francisco


80 posted on 10/14/2008 10:01:24 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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