LDS defend the faith as Christian

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 10/07/07 | By Peggy Fletcher Stack

[colorcountry]

Not only is Mormonism a Christian faith, it is the truest form of Christianity, said speaker after speaker on the first day of the 177th Semiannual LDS General Conference. LDS authorities were responding to the allegation that Mormonism isn't part of Christianity. Made by different mainline Protestant and Catholic churches and repeated constantly during coverage of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, the claim is based on Mormonism's beliefs about God, its rejection of ancient ideas about the Trinity still widely accepted, and the LDS Church's extra-biblical scriptures. "It is not our purpose to demean any person's belief nor the doctrine of any religion," said Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland in the afternoon session. "But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first [Christians], many of whom were eye-witnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?"

{snip}

The day's sermons included many familiar themes, including the importance of faith, the need for pure thoughts and actions, avoiding pornography reaching out to neighbors and eliminating spiritual procrastination. Hinckley talked about the destructive nature of anger in marriages, on the road, and in life, urging Mormons to "control your tempers, to put a smile upon your faces, which will erase anger; speak with words of love and peace, appreciation and respect."

[dangus]

>> I would say the test is in the mind and the heart. I have always been taught to study, ponder, and come to a decision, and then to pray for confirmation. <<

OK. But Mormonism seems to say, “suspend all credulity and reason and just take our word for it.” It seems more prepostrous than any other religions I’ve ever come across, except Scientology.

>> I think you would find as many different answers to that question as there are Mormons. When it happens, you know. <<

I’m not asking for something that specific. I’m asking you to define the terms used. I asked, “how is anyone to suppose that this is true?” and the answer I got is “the testimony of the Holy Ghost.” If you can’t begin to define that, you have refused to answer my question.

[restornu]

I think you would find as many different answers to that question as there are Mormons. When it happens, you know.

I’m not asking for something that specific. I’m asking you to define the terms used. I asked, “how is anyone to suppose that this is true?” and the answer I got is “the testimony of the Holy Ghost.” If you can’t begin to define that, you have refused to answer my question.

It is your attitude that prevents you from receiving a witness!

[Grig]

As I said before, God answers each person in his own way. Generally it isn’t with some kind of divine visitation but that isn’t impossible. It might come as a kind of ‘spiritual epiphany’ or it might be something that arrives gradually like a sunrise changing night to day, but the end result is a divine conviction. It really isn’t the kind of thing that lends itself easily to being put into words so my poor attempt to clarify it probably doesn’t help you much. It’s like trying to describe the taste of salt to someone who never tasted it. The only real way to know it is to experience it yourself.

God is not a respecter of persons, and those who are not Mormons can pray and have their prayers answered too if they also have faith in God and pray in the name of Christ with sincerity and real intent. Our missionaries encourage those they teach to do that and find out about the truth of what we teach from God before they join.

[Grig]

“But Mormonism seems to say, “suspend all credulity and reason and just take our word for it.””

No, that is not what we say. We say read it yourself, give honest consideration to our side, and take whatever conclusion you reach to God and ask Him if your conclusion is correct and go with what God answers you.

The fact is that sometimes what is true is contrary to what man’s reason would dictate. How reasonable is it to believe that someone actually walked on water, contrary to all the laws of nature we know, or changed water to wine, or rose from the dead? Where can faith and conviction in those things come from? Not from man’s reasoning. Pick up the Bible with a skeptical eye and you can easily come away from it thinking it is full of a bunch of silly, impossible stories that no reasonable person would buy into.

Is that what you think of the Bible, or do you have in your heart a conviction that Jesus is the Christ and actually did all those things? If you have that conviction, where did it come from, how did you get it?

There needs to be faith that God is both willing and able to answer such prayers. Although we can’t give you some kind of checklist to use in identifying the answer God sends you, by acting on faith you can find out for yourself that the witness of the Holy Ghost is a real thing. Then you can have a shot at describing it if you want. :)

May I suggest reading this one chapter of the BoM as you consider what we are talking about: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/32

[Grunthor]

“Not only is Mormonism a Christian faith, it is the truest form of Christianity”

If you are going to attempt to force feed the Christian base this complete bunk along with the Romney candidacy, they won’t buy either.

[Grig]

No need to be so accusatory resty. These are perfectly normal and understandable questions dangus is asking.

[restornu]

You may think it is accusatory yet it still is attitude because if one is contenious and there are many degrees from hostile to just trying to simply debunk!

He asked
I’m not asking for something that specific.

I’m asking you to define the terms used.

I asked, “how is anyone to suppose that this is true?” and the answer I got is “the testimony of the Holy Ghost.”

If you can’t begin to define that, you have refused to answer my question.

***

If one dose totally surrender with a humble and contrite heart by letting go and let God than the witness of the Holy Ghost is unable to enter!

[Elsie]

Taking the sacrament is to renew the covenant made at baptism.

So then, the communion you guys take is not the same as the one the rest of Christendom takes?

[Elsie]

1 Cor. 10: 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

[Elsie]

I don’t much like LIME anything.

The green candy is the VERY last that I’ll eat outta the bowl, for it’s usually LIME.

Now Key Lime Pie doesn’t really TASTE like LIME, so I’ll eat that if there’s nothing else in the cafeteria line.

[Elsie]

He taught that idea to his people, and reclaimed them from polytheism and from the heathenish practices into which they had fallen. I believe many men were inspired who lived after him and before him, who, nevertheless, did not have the Holy Priesthood, but were led by the Spirit of God to strive for a better condition of affairs and to live a purer and higher life than those by whom they were surrounded were living.

It looks like Mohamad needs to return and straighten out that HEAD CHOPPING thing amoung some of his followers!

[Elsie]

Every one of those quotes is long, long way off from endorsing Muhammad as a true servant of God like you try to portray it.

?

The words say what they say!

[Elsie]

On a side note, I’ve always wondered how much of Islam is actually based on what leaders after Muhammad established, and how much of what we know of Muhammad is accurate. Not that it matters much.

Then you are in the same boat with us, for we...

... always wondered how much of LDS religion is actually based on what leaders after Joseph Smith established, and how much of what we know of him is accurate.

We feel that it matters much!

[Elsie]

I’ve read it. It seems kinda silly.

But what about our PGP and the D&C's?

They are scripture, too!

--MormonDude(Silly me, for I believe it all!)

[Elsie]

We say read it yourself, give honest consideration to our side, and take whatever conclusion you reach to God and ask Him if your conclusion is correct and go with what God answers you.

Huh?

When someone does this, and comes away with, "It is false", then you folks say the person didn't ASK correctly, or some such.

You say that GOD will ALWAYS answer a person and a demon CANNOT answer for GOD.

We seem to have a logic problem here.

[Elsie]

It is your attitude that prevents you from receiving a witness!

MindReadingAlert!

[Elsie]

If you can’t begin to define that, you have refused to answer my question.

1 Peter 3:15

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

[dangus]

Restornu, you say that I have to totally surrender with a humble and contrite heart, and then I will receive the witness of the Holy Ghost? And what will that witness be?

You say I have to have not just an open mind, but an entirely contrite and humble heart. It sounds very similar to Catholic spirituality but with one critical difference: in Catholicism, it is the endproduct of rational exploration, not the start; the open mind leads to learning the truth, which leads to a heart broken (”contrite” is one of those Catholic Latinisms for “broken”) by having believed in lies, which is healed by Jesus. A belief which starts with a contrite heart and total surrender of the will, but which is not supported by an *objective* experience is what is called a self-delusion.

Now, I’ve seen loads of self-deluded Christians who just happen to be correct. A sort of much-friendlier version of “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you” would be “just because you’re a self-deluded Christian doesn’t mean Christianity isn’t true.” I can’t tell you how many charismatics and ex-charismatics believed many of the spiritual signs stem from simply WANTING them to be true, but then found a truer, less dramatic Christianity to be entirely rational.

So, I’m not expecting that each and every story of Mormon conversions be one of objective reality. If many troubled souls simply find something as vague as an inner peace after meeting so many nice people in Mormonism, you guys are actually doing your job right. But is there any real evidence of truth, or just nice feelings?

[dangus]

>> 1 Peter 3:15

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: <<

Thanks for that quote, Elsie

[G Larry]

Hmmm.....Does the LDS Church place “family” ahead of God, or not?