Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[colorcountry]

Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today. "I thought if he could go public, so can I," said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him "thousands of reasons the church can't be what it claims to be."

Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn's excommunication announced to the wards at men's priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare. They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church...................

[sevenbak]

People keep bringing up Keturah

People keep bringing up Keturah because it goes to the heart of the matter, fulfilling the promises made by God to Abraham, that his seed would fill the entire earth. Polygamy is not the big issue that everyone here today makes of Abraham's acts, it was about seed, and raising a righteous people, God's covenant people. I can't remember how many children he had by her, I think 4 or 5.

[sevenbak]

What? God failed to say, "Yes, but one of your wiVe[s]...? (how telling)

See here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1901375/posts?page=559#559

[higgmeister]

It’s all falderal. It is their church. They can do anything they want to with it. They have a president. Their faith is run like a business. What difference does it make how they may in fight?

When my friend in Basic Training told me a little about I looked askance at him and went on my way. The more contact I have had the more I know that what we think matters not at all to the LDS. Can't you grok it?

[Elsie]

My guess is that there was no need to command, because they all understood it and many many practiced it.

At least you admit you are guessing.

[Elsie]

Sarai acknowledges God's hand in her barrenness...

Sigh...

She BLAMES GOD for it

[Elsie]

Sarai acknowledges God's hand in her barrenness...

Sigh...

She BLAMES GOD for it!

and considering the promises to Abraham, she does what is certainly within the law, what her parents had done, what her children and grandchildren did...

She did NOT believe the 'promise' for she had LAUGHED at the very mention of it!

[DelphiUser]

If Romney gets the nomination he will never get the chance to govern as pres ... the heresies and embarrassing truths about Mormonism will destroy his chances by suppressing just enough Christian conservatives votes. To ignore this as a real possibility is to walk into a spinning propeller just to maintain solidarity with Mormonism at any cost.

A) Real clear politics did a poll, and Mitt's religion was seen as a non factor.
B) You keep citing 5% Can you cite a source?
C) I thought all you Anti's had finally hung up your hats when Fred announced.
IMHO, Mitt should not be a concern for you guys now that Fred is in the race, unless Fred wants to pick him as VP. All that leaves you guys with is the same old tired arguments against my faith which have been hashed and rehashed on FR

When will you anti's learn that to attack a faith is to draw attention to it, and thus cause others to investigate it? (Which is what you seem to NOT want to have happen) Conversely, those of us who are Mormon and who do have faith invite all to investigate our church, put us to the test, get a Book of Mormon, and cut through all the yea and nay arguments with a simple prayer, we invite all unto Jesus Christ our master and we are not afraid of any seeker asking questions. Our detractors who tell the truth in a lying way will always discover that they have only caused people to ask us questions, the "When did you stop beating your wife" style of questions, the "Deep Doctrine" questions only suffice to attract people to us, so while I worry for their souls, I do not worry that they will harm my church.

For any who want to actually know if the church is true, there is a simple formula, Get a Book of Mormon (BOM) for free!, or Read it online.

Compare the feelings in your soul with those that happen when you Read the Holy Bible, don't have a Bible? We will give you one of those for free too! (Contrary to what the Anti's will tell you, we do indeed read the Bible, it's part of the church cannon, but that does not fit their template for us.)

Once you have both, and have read both, here is the tricky part. Pray, Yep, that's it pray. Don't take my word, don't take some Pajama clad Anti's word, heck, don't take your ministers word, when it comes to God, he invites every one to come and ask him "And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" Sound familiar? How about this one "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." That is the one that started the Mormon church, Joseph Smith asked and was given, in fulfillment of scripture.

There will be many anti's here who will say all manner of things about Joseph smith, which can be refuted by actually sifting the truth from the lies. The simple truth is easily available by any who read the BOM and pray about it, for if God tells you the BOM is true what further use is argument? IMHO, When God speaks, the discussion ends. There are many non christians who attack Jesus, many who accuse him also of despicable things, they have an agenda which is not of God so it is with those who would attack another's faith as the anti's here do with ours.

Again, if you are interested in knowing for yourself, Get a book of Mormon, Get a bible ask in faith and God will answer you. There will be some anti's who will tell you not to bother, for they have prayed for you, do not be deceived, for There they cry, but none giveth answer, because of the pride of evil men. Seek out your own answer from God for it is your Command John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

You have an amazing opportunity, try the spirits, seek, Ask, God will answer you, be bold but ask in faith. I have received such an answer and when the God of Abraham, and of Isaac and of Jacob speaks to your soul you will indeed know that the answer is of him and none shall have power over you if you will but heed the still small voice of the Spirit of God and come unto him.

I know the Anti's will tell you that Satan will answer a prayer to God, ask them for a scripture that says this is possible.

They will tell you we are not telling the truth, fine, don't believe us, or them ask God.

They will tell you we have already been proven wrong, can you risk it? What if they are wrong, what if they are decieving you? would you rather trust in the arm of flesh, or of God?

Up until now, my links have all been to the Bible, or to places to ask for scriptures, try the spirit of this scripture from the Book of Mormon and see if it is not of the same spirit as the Bible: 2 Nephi 32:8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.

Friends, brethren, beware of those who teach that God will not answer a sincere prayer of the heart. seek God. Seek to good continually, Do good to those who persecute you and despitefully use you. In the end you will in no wise lose your reward for seeking to follow the scriptures.

Amen.

P.S. I appear to have some reading to do to catch up with this thread, hey how come nobody pinged me earlier?

[MHGinTN]

HEBREWS 1:1-4 In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages; who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest, having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they. [ Young’s literal translation from the Greek ]

The Book of Hebrews was written to Jews who were familiar with prophets and priests of Judaism. The author’s purpose becomes clear very quickly because the writer contrasts the past method by which God spoke to the Hebrews --via prophets-- with the new way He speaks to us via His Son. The writer is making this case to people who had identified themselves as Christians and making the case in order to prevent them falling back into Judaism and/or falling short of true faith in Christ rather than the system of the law and the prophets.

Mormonism has sought to reestablish the Judaism system of ‘law and prophets’ … which Jesus replaced by fulfilling them and has thus become our Great High Priest and speaks directly to us via His Word such that we are not now to establish ‘different’ or ’new’ doctrine and covenants via ‘prophets‘ calling themselves messengers of God:

HEBREWS 2:5 For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak,

. . .

2:7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,

. . .

2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus -- because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.

[MHGinTN]

The Aaronic priesthood was done away at the cross and the Melchizedek priesthood is unique to Christ.

The Aaronic priesthood was done away at the crucifixion of Christ, since He has become our permanent high priest. There is no more need for Levitical priests to offer imperfect sacrifices on behalf of the people in the temple. Jesus alone is worthy to hold the Melchizedek priesthood. Any believer today who has been called out of darkness into the light, regardless of age, race, or sex, is a member of the holy and royal priesthood. The believer operates in the highest authority that is offered today, viz., that of being a child of the Lord Omnipotent. Christians have the true priesthood, since they have the true God who gives it to them (Jn. 1:12; Gal. 3:26-29; 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 4:14; 5:9-10; 7:11-8:2; 9:24; and 1 Pt. 2:5 and 9).

[VxH]

Yah, but what will Mit do about the Moon Men?

 

http://nowscape.com/mormon/irwin.htm

 

The Men In The Moon

The Prophet Brigham Young, in a vision, saw men on the Moon. Young wrote that "...the Moon-Men dress like [winged] Quakers and must have the true gospel revealed to them by missionaries from the Earth, in the fullness of time". Documents locked up in the vaults of the Mormon church show that the Prophet, Seer and Revelator David O. McKay knew in 1969 that the time was nigh to fulfill the prophesy from a hundred years before. McKay sought out the non-Mormon space man James B. Irwin.

Irwin, aged 39, could not remember a time when he did not have a burning interest in outer space. He was chosen in 1970 to become the eighth man to walk on the Moon (Apollo 15). As Prophet, McKay, of course knew this would happen. So it came to pass that McKay sent seven missionaries to the home of Irwin in 1970 to pray with the Irwin family. The missionaries' task was to convert Irwin to Mormonism so that Irwin, the astronaut, could contact the Quaker Moon-Men in 1971, for the purpose of restoring to them the gospel of Jesus Christ of Earth. But Irwin could not understand the basics of Mormonism completely and he did not trust these young missionaries. He rejected the truth, but this episode started him thinking about spiritual matters.

Being scientifically inclined (M.S. in aeronautical and instrumentation engineering, University of Michigan, 1957) his mind pondered if it would be possible to communicate telepathically across the vast distances of space -- from the moon to the earth. Double blind experiments were set up, but the results turned out ambiguous.

Irwin died in August of 1991. But his experience with the missionaries made a lasting impression on his spirit. He never fully accepted Mormonism, but he also did not reject it.

Irwin resigned from NASA and from the Air Force in 1972 to form and lead a religious organization, High Flight Foundation, in Colorado, USA. He led several expeditions to Mt. Ararat to photograph Noah's Ark. He has even retrieved some six thousand year old timbers from it, which his wife and four children donated to the Mormon Church in 1993.

 

James C. Fletcher (1919-1991) was a physicist, research scientist, lecturer, writer, Mormon, University of Utah
President, and director of NASA. http://www.lib.utah.edu/spc/mss/ms202/202.html

================================================================

 

 

More wacky Mormon Space beliefs?  http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormons5.htm 

 

LRon was a much better Sci Fi writer.  LOL.

[MHGinTN]

But Joe was sensitive to the popular notions ... the big bang theory had not yet been articulated so he chose the steady-state for the universe and gods he fabricated. Very ‘with it’ for his day don’tchaknow.

[DelphiUser]

MHG, please understand I will continue to point this out not because it bothers me, but so that others will see how petty you are being here. MHGinTN refuses to actually respond to posts by me because I made a comment to someone else that offended him, so he responds to my posts, and then does not keep my name in the to line so I won't know he has posted unless I go look. Hey, whatever it takes to make you feel like you are "winning" some imagined contest, dude.

HEBREWS 1:1-4 In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages; who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest, having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they. [ Young’s literal translation from the Greek ]

The Book of Hebrews was written to Jews who were familiar with prophets and priests of Judaism. The author’s purpose becomes clear very quickly because the writer contrasts the past method by which God spoke to the Hebrews --via prophets-- with the new way He speaks to us via His Son.

So to you God is changing his methodology here, and prophets will be completely done away with. Interesting, then why is there any prophecy about future prophets in the New Testament? Revelations 11:10, 18
Why is there a list of offices for Christ's Church which includes Prophets in it, in the New Testament (See 1 Cor. 12: 28-29
I could go on about prophecies that have not yet been fulfilled that require prophets, but I think your interpretation of the scriptures, since it contradicts scripture, is safely dead. Besides, who says God can't send Jesus, and then have more prophets later? oh yeah, you. It's not surprising since you are using books to try to understand God instead of asking him directly which is what we teach and you seem to hate.

The writer is making this case to people who had identified themselves as Christians and making the case in order to prevent them falling back into Judaism and/or falling short of true faith in Christ rather than the system of the law and the prophets.

IMHO, there will always be a law and prophets.

Mormonism has sought to reestablish the Judaism system of ‘law and prophets’

BZZT, Wrong! (Again)

… which Jesus replaced by fulfilling them and has thus become our Great High Priest and speaks directly to us via His Word such that we are not now to establish ‘different’ or ’new’ doctrine and covenants via ‘prophets‘ calling themselves messengers of God:

Wait, did you just say that because Jesus speaks to us we can't follow a Prophet even if Jesus testifies of one? Huh? (Folks, this is called cognitive dissonance.)

This is getting Good, Pray continue...

HEBREWS 2:5 For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak,
. . .
2:7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,
. . .
2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus -- because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.

So, you jump around in the scriptures and succeed in pointing out that God made Jesus.

Mormons believe that too, we specify that it was before time began and that Jesus was a member of the Godhead (a Biblical word as opposed to Trinity which is not in the Bible anywhere.) And thus was and is God from all Eternity to all Eternity and was before and last, etc, etc.

This is funny, here is the scripture you butchered to try to make your point.

Hebrews 2

1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the edevil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

WOW, what a wonderful scripture full of the mission of Jesus Christ, his creation, the start of time, mortality, and his role as savior! Wait, what you got out of that by interpreting it was That there are no more prophets? I think you need to stop interpreting, and start reading, but hey what do I know, I'm a Mormon, so what could I possibly know of the Bible. (BTW, when ever you cut out half the scriptures in a chapter to make your point, you are not getting the message that was in there, you are twisting the scriptures to your own interpretation, what's next, rearranging the words?

I'll deal with your other fabrications later...

[VxH]

[the universe and gods he fabricated]

Yep,  Pretty poor model for being "inspired".

Gee, I wonder if Planck’s constant, Planck time, and the constant for the speed of light are the same on Planet Kolob - where Jose says one Kolob-day corresponds to 1000 earth-years?

[MHGinTN]

You are a deceiver (that’s a nicer way to call you a liar for falsely claiming I say there are no more prophets) ... I noted that personal prophecy (uttered by prophets, whiner) is still in effect as with the prophecsies to Paul regarding the sufferings he would endure, but a prophet to lead the people is an insult to the One whom you ought to have leading you then you wouldn’t lie and deceiver and try to create false attributions to people. And you wonder why I do not consider you to put your name in the ‘to’ line! You Mormon Apologists are getting such good exposure for the dissemblers you are. Nice work for poor Mitt. I doubt you’ll get another acknowledgement this year so enjoy this one, deceiver. ... And I won’t respond to your other FR IDs either.

[VxH]

"The Other Mormon Planets
In his famous Facsimile 2, an Egyptian papyrus which Joseph Smith translated, the Mormon prophet reveals several other Mormon celestial objects.  Amongst them are the planet Oliblish and the planet Enish - go - on - dosh.  Mormons believe that a man from Kolob,  and his wives, are entitled to four annual (Kolobian years) space trips to visit the Temple of Fertility on the planet Kolob travel to Oliblish, providing he "maintaineth righteousness in all things". "

 

 

 

 

Can you immagine what the Dims would do with this material?

 

There is no way in HELL, Heaven, Earth, Kolob, or Xenu that Mit Romney will ever be president of the USA.  

 

 

[MHGinTN]

You have freepmail ...

[VxH]

[Very ‘with it’ for his day don’tchaknow]

 

Apparently the Masons that tarred and feathered Jose weren't favorably impressed.

 

Probably would have been safer to create material that was more original -  like el Ron's Clam stories.

 

 

[MHGinTN]

The key to post #572 is found at the following link on another thread where the same specious accusation was offered regarding my 'interpretation' of Hebrews Chapter One: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1906549/posts?page=538#538

[Elsie]

I know the Anti's will tell you that Satan will answer a prayer to God, ask them for a scripture that says this is possible.

 

T a d a !!

 

1 John 4

 

 1.  Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
 2.  This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
 3.  but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

[Elsie]

P.S. I appear to have some reading to do to catch up with this thread, hey how come nobody pinged me earlier?

(Maybe your buddies thought they had it all wrapped up in this thread.)