Posted on 04/26/2007 6:03:35 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Ask Mark Briscoe, leader of the Howell ward of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the greatest misconception about the church, and he doesn't have to think very long or hard.
"Sometimes people would say that we're not Christians," he said. "We definitely are. We believe in Jesus Christ."
An Idaho native, Briscoe has been a Mormon his whole life, and said it is painful to have others think that his church is somehow outside the boundaries of Christianity. He said he was a high school student when he first heard the accusation.
"It was a little bit unsettling," he said. "From my earliest memories, we talked about Jesus Christ." In fact, members of the church believe that Jesus' teachings were changed and weakened soon after the apostles died, and that this "apostasy," or falling away from the truth, led to the withdrawal of the true church from the earth.
Mormons believe that was reversed when Joseph Smith, regarded as a prophet, was visited by God and Jesus in a vision in 1820. That's when Smith was chosen to restore the true church to the world, according to LDS doctrine. Smith translated the Book of Mormon, the sacred text of the Latter Day Saints, which is based on the Bible.
The Mormons' refer to this process as the "restoration."
The religion has received increased attention as Mitt Romney's prominence as a presidential candidate has risen. As happened with John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic president, some political observers have questioned whether Romney's Mormonism will hurt his electability, or his conduct as president if he's eventually elected.
Jan Shipps, an expert in the LDS church, a professor emeritus of history and religious studies at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, and a Methodist, said that concern is overhyped.
She said that, unlike Catholicism, in which a politician can be denied communion for votes in support of abortion rights, for example, the Mormon church does not directly influence its members who happen to be politicians.
A local bishop can exclude a church member from the temple, but that's about it, Shipps said.
"They don't have any official way to control their members, except to say that they can go into or cannot go into the temple," Shipps said.
"I just don't think it's a big deal, but a lot of people think it is because the president of the church is also understood to be a prophet," she said. "But the likelihood that the president of the church would have a revelation that the president has to do this or has to do that is less than zero."
Briscoe agreed with Shipps' assessment that any influence the church would have over members would be at the local level. But even that would not include anything political.
"We never say we're for one candidate or the other," he said. "Our view is that's not proper."
There is some evidence, however, that Romney is getting a lot of support from Mormons — 13 percent of the money he's raised so far, or $2.37 million, has come from the state of Utah, home of the church's headquarters.
Local ties, global reach Briscoe's title is "Bishop," analogous to a pastor, but he doesn't receive a salary from the church. That goes for all other leaders as well. Briscoe works as a powertrain engineer for Ford Motor Co. in Livonia.
"It makes for a very busy life, that's for sure," he said.
The LDS church on West Grand River Avenue in Howell has 400 members; holds services every Sunday; and has youth activities during the week.
One of the hallmarks of the church is the cooperation and support between members.
"A main focus is to provide service to one another," Briscoe said.
Members go in groups of two to visit each other on the weekends for "Home Teaching" sessions, in which they talk about spirituality and life in general, he said.
"Part of it is to see if people need help with anything," he said. "The goal is that nobody feels they don't have someone to call."
The visiting is separated by gender, with males visiting males and females visiting females.
Mormon services are not the raucous or musical affairs that other denominations celebrate.
"'Reverent' is the word we like to use," Briscoe said.
A typical service starts with the sacrament, a hymn and a prayer. Then, church members who Briscoe has spoken with beforehand give talks of about 10 minutes long on a given subject.
Non-Mormons, however, don't often get the chance to witness these services. The church has a reputation for secrecy, but Shipps said it's not just for the sake of exclusion.
"A better way to say it is what goes on in the temple is sacred and therefore private, rather than secret," she said. "All temples are closed to anyone except those who the bishop recommends."
Outreach also is an important part of the Mormon philosophy. Most men do two years of missionary work when they're around 19 years old, and unmarried women do 18 months. One of Briscoe's own sons is in Brazil right now as a missionary.
College age is an ideal time to go abroad as a missionary because it exposes one to the world, yet still gives a person time to start a family. And family, Briscoe said, is a foundational piece of the Mormon church.
"We do believe in families," he said. "We believe a man and a woman should get married and raise a family, so we encourage that."
Briscoe himself was a missionary in Spain: "I learned probably as much from that experience as I did from college."
Mormons also are aware of opportunities to tell friends and other social acquaintances about Mormonism, Briscoe said, and how to approach people is a subject of conversation in the church.
"As life goes on, you get into discussions about your beliefs," he said. "We feel like what we have is so important ... we really feel deeply that what we believe is the truth."
The church has been fairly successful in bringing more people in. There are about 6 million members of the LDS church in United States, and more than that abroad, Shipps said.
Not universally embraced Many of the church's practices have prompted criticism from other religions. Polygamy, the practice of husbands having more than one wife, may be the most enduring stereotype of Mormons. But it hasn't been practiced since 1890 by the church, and is strictly prohibited.
The LDS past practice of baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims after their death drew fierce opposition from Jewish leaders as well.
Shipps said it was done to give non-Mormons the choice in the afterlife of becoming Mormon. That's also why there's such an emphasis in the church on genealogy — so that all one's relatives can be identified and baptized, she said.
Also, black people were denied membership until 1978, when the president of the church at the time had a revelation that they should be included.
Now, Shipps said, the LDS church has made strong inroads into nonwhite areas such as Japan, South Korea and Africa.
"There may be as many people worshipping on Sunday in Spanish-speaking areas than English-speaking," she said.
Theologically, Mormonism is viewed suspiciously by some as well. The Southern Baptist Convention, for example, puts the LDS church in the category of "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements."
Shipps said the thing that sets Mormonism apart — and ironically draws the ire of both Christians and Jews — is the belief that the church is re-gathering the twelve tribes of Israel.
"It's a very complex and interesting and powerful theology, but for those looking at it from the outside, it seems somewhat strange because it has, in addition to Christian claims, claims to be the restoration of Israel," Shipps said.
Another notable Mormon belief is that the church president is a prophet, and receives the word of God.
"We believe God does talk to man," Briscoe said. "He chooses one prophet at a time."
Regardless of the negativity and criticism they may run into, he said, most Mormons aren't swayed.
"When people say things, we're still confident and confident in what we know to be right," he said.
Sure. You are scared of the words of Jesus. Understood.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1822809/posts?q=1&;page=301
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.The Book of Mormon is claimed to have been translated from documents antedating by thousands of years the King James version of the Bible. Strange that it should so closely resemble it. Well, I guess that proves how miraculous it really was, huh?
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
--Galatians 1:7-9
“what go must I do? “
The man was thinking in terms of righteousness by works, Jesus corrected this misunderstanding first before answering the question more fully. The term eternal life, kingdom of God, heaven were used interchangeable.
“Why do you ask me about what is good?”
Jesus wanted the man to think about what is good, since Jesus’ concept differed from the current religious leaders. Good is not something to be done in itself. God alone is good, all goodness derives from Him, even the keeping of the commandments, which Jesus explained.
“If you want to enter life, obey the commandments”
To enter life is the same as to get eternal life, The requirement to obey the commandments is not to establish one’s merit before God but is to be an expression of true faith. The Bible always teaches that Salvation is a GIFT of God’s grace received through FAITH.
The rich mans goal was eternal life but wealth and lack of commitment stood in his way. This was the rich man’s main problem.
As a side note when Jesus used the term “eye of a needle” He was not talking about a sewing needle, He was speaking (historically) about the city gates. The opening was often referred to as “eye of the needle”. A camel was to tall to get through when it was loaded up with goods and had to get on his knees to walk/crawl through the opening.
The rich man was not willing to humble himself.
Where does Jesus says this?
“To enter life is the same as to get eternal life, The requirement to obey the commandments is not to establish one’s merit before God but is to be an expression of true faith. The Bible always teaches that Salvation is a GIFT of God’s grace received through FAITH.”
You are muddying up His words. He said to obey the commandments. That is it! Show me where Jesus does a commentary about this concept? Again, Jesus sounds very Mormon. Imagine that!
And tradition Christians distort the direct words of Jesus from the GOSPELS. Who is selling a different Gospel? Those who cling to the direct words of Jesus or those who prefer Paul over Jesus in everything they seek to understand?
Well, don't you know, Reformed Egyptian was the forerunner of King James English.(wink)
From Wikipedia:
“According to the literal interpretation, Kolob is an actual star in this universe that is near to, or perhaps the sun of, the physical throne of God. This interpretation has significant formative impact on Mormon belief and criticism, leading to conceptions such as that the faithful will be made gods of planets in this universe, that God dwells within this universe rather than transcending it, and that the Biblical creation is a creation of the local earth, galaxy, or solar system rather than the entire known physical reality.”
While Wikipedia isn’t definitive, it certainly shows that the “god” controversy is not something I made up. By the way, do you believe God rules from a planet near Kolob in the center of the universe? More importantly, does Mitt Romney believe that?
By the way, I’ve heard the “god” of a planet story from a couple different Mormons trying to convert me. Once it was a lawyer for the hydroponics farm where they used magic water to make their plants grow (you can’t make this stuff up).
But aren't you doing the same type of thing? What do you get out bashing another's religion and arguing the same points over and over again? Do you get extra brownie points in your spiritual growth if you turn someone away from the "evil Mormon church"?
I wonder this mostly about the group up the street from me who call themselves Concerned Christians, too. Their only reason for being is to say, "Mormons are wrong". They bother people at the Easter pageant with signs that say Mormons are not Christian, yet their brand of Christianity feels ugly and hateful. What do they get out of it?
I can see a discussion that says, "Here is what I believe." (which is why I complimented the Catholic who has been on these threads (I suck at names). But, bashing someone over and over the head again saying, "Your beliefs are wrong and evil" reminds me too much of guys who yell vulgar things at girls from out their car window, then wonder why they can't get a girlfriend.
Ephesians 2:8
Titus 3:5
Romans 3:23-24
Romans 9:30-32
Ephesians 1:18-23 (my prayer for you).
No, Wikipedia is not definitive or authoritative. As for the "god controversy," I am not sure which controversy you have in mind. Do you mean the doctrine that men may become the sons of God and therefore be called gods? I discussed that in my previous posts (27 and 32).
By the way, I’ve heard the “god” of a planet story from a couple different Mormons trying to convert me. Once it was a lawyer for the hydroponics farm where they used magic water to make their plants grow (you can’t make this stuff up).
He really said "magic water"? I suspect that someone has been pulling your leg.
I see you stopped short of Matthew 19:25-26.
"When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, 'Who then can be saved?'"
But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this (salvation) is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
The purpose of Jesus' comment to the rich ruler was to prove that point.
“He really said “magic water”? I suspect that someone has been pulling your leg.”
It was the hydoponics farm owner who used the magic water statement. It was his lawyer who told me I could become a God on a planet with multiple Celestial wives. The hydoponics farm was just a stones throw from the Chicken Brothel in Pahrump (or maybe it was the Cherry Patch, I forget).
Which is not to be out done by the business partner who told me he vacuumed the sheeps wool on the wall at the Vegas Temple and the roller marks “magically” disappeared. He lives across the street from the temple. He and his son threatened to beat me up one Christmas, mainly because they were trying to hide the business books. They also got mad at me for trying to kill the Mormon crickets that infested the control room, apparently the crickets were magical or sacred or something.
But what disturbed me the most was the gal I dated who gotten a divorce from a Mormon and had been driven out of the church. That was the first time I suspected how cloistered most Mormons are.
By the way, I have no interest in your postmodern liberal spirituality either. Heard it more than I care to at the moment already.
[But, bashing someone over and over the head again saying, “Your beliefs are wrong and evil”]
It would certainly be out of place - if those weird doctrines weren’t the faith of a presidential candidate. Otherwise you might as well elect Tom Cruise, cause he’s just as good looking as Romney, some of his views are conservative, and the fact that he is driven to bizarre behavior by his religion should be of no concern.
I perceive that you are a student of this cult of Mormon. More power to you. I am a student of the cult of Marianism. I find an interesting intersection between the two at “Mother of God” and “Heavenly Mother”.
No. What I find ridiculous is that you would question the veracity of a quote in Isaiah. Have you read everything that both the Old and New Testament says about works? If not, why not? You don’t wish to know what God says on the subject?
You must honestly believe that God gives you the authority to pick and chose which quotes from the Holy Bible that you like and only apply those.
You have forgotten that the WORDS of Christ started with the WORD in Genesis? Jesus is the Word. Jesus is the Savior. You cannot separate Jesus from the Word.
If you didn’t have the Word, you wouldn’t have Jesus, would you?
If you didn’t have the Old Testament, you wouldn’t have the New Testament.
Picking and chosing is not going to benefit you on your walk with Christ.
I am not a student. I am an ex-mormon and simply pass on my experiences and what I was taught unitl I was in my mid-twenties. I have been out of the flow of Mormonism for about 25 years.
The author of this article has confused regular worship services in our Chapels with the ordinances performed in our Temples. No person who has not been deemed worthy by mormon authorities meaning obeying all the rules and paying 10% of their income to the church may enter a temple, even if a family member, including son or daughter, is being married within. They must wait outside on the steps or sidewalk. Left that out.
We perform proxy baptisms in our Temples for every person who has died, no matter their race, religion, nation of origin, etc. The names are submitted by people who have those names in their ancestry. Proxy baptisms did not target Jewish Holocaust victims. Even though Jewish leaders won a court case against the LDS church for these baptisms, and promised to not do it again, members are still baptizing Jews. Mormons renew pledge to end proxy baptism of Jews Left that out
Also, black people were denied membership until 1978, when the president of the church at the time had a revelation that they should be included.
Absolutely untrue. Blacks were not denied membership.
Black men, while allowed to be "members" were denied being ordained in the two priesthoods claimed by the mormons, thus were "second-class members" until a "revelation" in 1978, after the civil rights movement was successful. Left that out.
Otherwise, your post was mostly accurate.
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