Posted on 12/20/2006 9:42:50 AM PST by NYer
Rob Evans has taught millions of Christians that “Life without Jesus is like a doughnut: There’s a hole in the middle of your heart.”
Jesus filled the hole in Evans’ heart by bringing him to the Catholic Church.
Evans, 53, was hugely popular as an Evangelical Christian performer, selling more than 6 million CDs and DVDs, and appearing at more than 2,500 church concerts and conferences. His Donut Repair Club has been a mainstay of EWTN’s programming for the past 10 years.
Evans, his wife of 33 years, Shelley, and one of his children — daughter Tonya, 14 — were received into the Catholic Church this past Easter.
Evans spoke with Register correspondent Tom Wehner about what he called his “discovery” of the Catholic faith.
What was your upbringing like?
I grew up in the Presbyterian church. And when my parents divorced when I was 6, the church in Paoli (Pa.) told [my mother] that divorce might be the best thing for her in this situation because she found “true love” with another man and that she had her whole life ahead of her. The church did not fight for the unity of our family. … So we stopped going to church.
When I was at Rutgers, I read everything. I read Nietzsche, I read Sartre, Plato. … I was reading about Western civilization, but nobody was talking about Jesus. I saw an ad in The Daily Targum (campus newspaper) advertising a study on the philosophy of Christ one evening. And I went to a room that held a thousand people, and I was the only one there. … I was thirsting for something. I was considering Christ, but I wasn’t seeing him.
Tell me about your introduction to Christ.
When I was 19 and Shelley was 17, we were “born again” in a charismatic Pentecostal group. It made inroads into the local high school; that’s how Shelley came in. My mother was going through her third divorce, and a woman at the local swimming club, her best friend, told her all about Jesus; she was from Latvia, and she pronounced it “Cheesus.” My mom had hope in her heart that Jesus would heal her marriage. My mother visited her friend’s pastor — Dennis Corrigan, who was a graduate of Princeton Theological Seminary.
I went to talk to Dennis … and he ended up leading me to Jesus Christ. I said to him, “Nietzsche, Sartre, Plato — what about all these philosophies?” He said, “They’re dead. Jesus Christ is alive.”
I said, “What about Adam and Eve? What about the Bible? Do you really believe these things?” Right in the middle of this conversation, his wife comes up with a plate of cookies and coffee and their two little preschoolers come up to get a big kiss goodnight, and there was joy and peace and order and beauty in that home. I wanted that. They brought Christ to me philosophically and biblically in their lives.
Dennis was the one who baptized me. Their next door neighbor was a teenage girl who brought her friend — whom I fell in love with — to church. It was love at first sight. So Shelley Tait came in, and we were engaged four months later and were married that very year.
I quit Rutgers University and went to work as a carpenter.
What happened to cause your church to splinter, and how did you maintain your faith throughout this ordeal?
The church split over discipleship. By this time, 1978, I had 12 men working for me; I had been married for five years. I had three kids and another one on the way. All of my friends, my whole company, moved to Florida from Philadelphia. My company was devastated.
After two more splits, we ended up being in a church of about five or 10 people, and it once had been thousands. What I thought was my forever family was gone, gone and gone again. We kept our focus on Jesus in heaven — the celestial church. Obviously, there was no earthly church that had any true unity.
Because Shelley and I are both children of divorce, when the church fell apart it brought terrific stress to our marriage. We know of a number of couples that then divorced after this meltdown.
During this period of time, we kept telling our children about Jesus and I kept singing them daddy’s songs. So the emotion, the joy and the assurance that the Holy Spirit gave us was what I sang about. God continued to hold us together and kept blessing us with children. We had five in seven years.
How did you become the Donut Man?
In the middle of that crucible, I maintained a habit of tucking the kids in every night with a Bible story and then I would go to my office and write a song.
So I wrote dozens and dozens and dozens of songs from tucking my kids in, and then my wife observed that my children were singing daddy’s songs, so she surprised me with $1,250 that she had saved for us to go on a second honeymoon.
She said, “I think you should make a recording with these songs so we can bless some other people.” So we prayed about it, and I did. And I went into my friend’s recording studio and recorded daddy’s songs. And one of those songs was, “Life without Jesus is like a doughnut; there’s a hole in the middle of your heart.”
My brother-in-law took a picture of me peeking through a doughnut for my first cover, and it was called “Musical Donuts.”
That was in 1982, and it grew from there in a remarkable way.
Tell me about the path you took to your conversion.
I didn’t convert to Catholicism, I discovered Catholicism. The word “converted” I wear reluctantly only because it communicates, and it’s an accepted part of Catholic culture.
When I used to drive by a Catholic church, I would pray a blessing on that church: “Lord, save those poor Catholics. Pour your Spirit out on that church. Amen.” Little did I know that I was praying for myself.
In 1991, we moved to Nashville to be closer to Integrity Music, which was based in Mobile, Ala. We went to a Baptist church, but that underwent a split. And then in 2001 we moved back home to Ocean County, N.J., and joined a church there.
We were home. But within six months, we were kicked out over a theological dispute over alcohol.
As I went through the last meltdown, I said to my wife, “You know, the Catholic Church has a unity.” And we started going to Mass in our local parish that we would drive by every day — St. Francis of Assisi. This was in February of 2005. And we would kneel down in the quiet and, you know what? Catholics read the Bible every Mass. And when I saw the way they revered the Host, I was really touched. … And all of the priests — Father Steve, Father Kevin, Father Tom and Father John — revered Christ in the Eucharist, I could see it. I could feel it, too.
Was there one particular incident that brought everything into focus?
Back when I was in my 20s, I read How Then Shall We Live by Francis Schaeffer. He lays the blame for the fires of the Reformation at the feet of Thomas Aquinas. I had also been taught that to include Mary in the equation any more than two weeks around Christmas was idolatrous.
Right around February and March of 2005 as we were starting to “nibble” at Mass, I went to a Border’s bookstore in the Hamilton mall near Atlantic City. And I love photography.
Well, right next to P for Photography is R for Religion. I saw a book of sermonettes by Thomas Aquinas from Sophia Press. I pulled it out, popped it open to his teaching on “Hail Mary, full of grace.” And he asked the question, “How full of grace would the mother of Jesus Christ be?” This is the only time an angel has accorded a human being this kind of honor. I found it such a poignant, thoughtful question, beautifully stated and in no way idolatrous.
It was completely, profoundly Christ-centered. And it made me consider Mary as the singularly most Christ-centered person who has ever lived. Not just in her head and in her heart, but literally, in her womb.
I just grabbed the book, I bought it, and went out and read it to my wife in the car, and we both looked at each other … We had just gone to Mass a couple times … and now this was Aquinas, the guy who was to blame for the Reformation … I find out that he’s not an idolater. This guy is truly a Church father. And what he had to say about Mary, well, I devoured it.
We sat there in the parking lot of Border’s and I read it to Shelley, and in unison we said to each other, “We’re Catholic.”
At the same time we were considering these things, my daughter Sarah and her husband, Pete Johnson, did convert to Catholicism.
Were there other realizations that opened your mind and heart to Catholicism and the sacraments?
As the Donut Man, I was looking for an authoritative way to teach the children. I color-coded all of my videos for children who couldn’t read. I have the “yellow video,” the “green video,” the “red video” — matching the coveralls that I wore in the videos. And then I went to Mass and I saw the different colors that were keyed to the liturgical calendar, which gives you historicity.
I was never taught my baptism was symbolic. If my baptism circumcised my heart, crucified, buried and resurrected me with Christ in the waters of baptism, that ain’t symbolic. That’s sacramental.
My approach to communion was never symbolic. It was always sacramental. My approach to my wife was sacramental. And I knew that confession isn’t just to God. Through the Promise Keepers movement, with covenant groups in the evangelical realm, they were called accountability groups. Hello! That’s confessing, that’s invoking Jesus’ initiative with Peter: “I give you the keys. What you bind on earth is bound in heaven, what you loose on earth is forgiven in heaven.” … That’s sacramental.
The Catholic Church maintains this pattern in the Eucharist that Christ himself comes to us in the bread and the cup. Why would Protestants break that pattern and accept a communion that, at best, is a sweet meditation and a reverencing of Jesus Christ. … The Catholic Church has a fuller view of Communion. It’s not a question of right and wrong. It’s a question of good vs. miraculous.
What does the future hold for the Donut Man?
My kids tell me, “Dad you were a great Protestant evangelist and you’re going to be a great Catholic evangelist.” Well, we’re going to find out. I’m not going to bite the hand that fed me for 33 years. So I’m still going to reach out to my separated brothers and sisters. I am focusing on a new kid’s album right now with “The Eucharist Song,” “Holy Water on My Face,” and “All for the Love of Mary.”
Well, you lost me when you called the Church a sect.
Seems like a righteous fellow.
Nice to see St Thomas is bringing some folks back after all these years.
And again you avoid the question, Wagglebee.
If you cannot defend your faith or deign not to, I will just let it go and I will forgo pestering you for an answer. I just hope that in the future you will not make statements you cannot or will not defend. I would prefer that you DO defend your faith, as it makes me work for my mind and forces me to learn more.
But alas!
May this coming day of the celebration of Christ Jesus' birth find you and yours blessed.
Otto
Ottofire, the translation given by the NAS here is not good. (Usually the NAS is much better than the KJV or NIV, but not in this case.) The direct object of the clause in verse 4 is the Greek word "asphaleian", which is used three times in the NT. It means "assurance", "certainty", "firmness", or "security". It does not mean "exact truth". A better translation of verse 4 is: "so that you come to know the certainty concerning the words which you were taught [orally]." There is no Greek word there that should be translated "exact truth".
-A8
I think that's a bit short-sighted, to say the least. Look, an angel comes to Isaiah (who was a pretty devout guy and, some say, the greatest of the Prophets)--- the angel comes and puts a burning coal in his mouth to purify his sinful lips. OK: an angel comes to Mary and tells her "scrub up?" No: greets her with this unprecedented homage: "the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women." Wow.
Example two: when a person gets a new name in Scripture, it's supposed to mean something big is afoot: God is revealing something about their part in the Divine Plan. Abram---> Abraham (father of many). Jacob---> Israel (wrestles with God). Simon ---> Peter (the Rock). And Mary is addressed by the angel, not by her name, but by a new name or title: Mary ---> Full of Grace.
Now this is remarkable in itself, but even more remarkable is that ALL the ancient Churches unanimously agreed that this meant that Mary was saved ("my spirit rejoices in God my Savior") before she was even born, by being preserved from the blight which was otherwise inherited by all of the progeny of Adam and Eve. Her human nature was unblemished. This does not make her super-human. It makes her ....human. It makes her as clean as Eve was when Eve was first created, on her first lovely day in Eden.
Make sense? Well, 3/4 of all Christians--- Catholic Orthodox, and the ancient Churches of the East (Assyrians, Chaldeans, etc.) ---they ALL say it makes sense, and have for the last 2000 years.
So for you, an American who is 21 centuries removed from the Biblical scenes we're talking about, and who (I'm guessing) is not a native speaker of either Aramaic or Greek, to say to the the people who were part of the culture and who spoke the language that they don't understand their own Scriptures...
Whew.
Merry Christmas, again! To you and yours. Rejoice!
--Ottofire, the translation given by the NAS here is not good. (Usually the NAS is much better than the KJV or NIV, but not in this case.) The direct object of the clause in verse 4 is the Greek word "asphaleian", which is used three times in the NT. It means "assurance", "certainty", "firmness", or "security". It does not mean "exact truth". A better translation of verse 4 is: "so that you come to know the certainty concerning the words which you were taught [orally]." There is no Greek word there that should be translated "exact truth".
So I should state: Luke is writing to Theophilus to give him the assured, certain, firm and/or secure truth.
I am not a Greek scholar in the least, and I will accept your findings unless someone else IS a Greek scholar and says otherwise. Exact does seem like a more modern term, much like the word Magnify, can add connotations that might not be there... :o)
--I think that's a bit short-sighted, to say the least. Look, an angel comes to Isaiah (who was a pretty devout guy and, some say, the greatest of the Prophets)--- the angel comes and puts a burning coal in his mouth to purify his sinful lips. OK: an angel comes to Mary and tells her "scrub up?" No: greets her with this unprecedented homage: "the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women." Wow.
Yup. The coal thing with Isaiah is indeed impressive! Where else is it found in the Scriptures that an angel of the Lord purifies someone? I am not aware of any where else. Why did it happen? Because Isaiah said he had an impure mouth, and did not think himself worthy to be a prophet.
Did Martha get a coal to cleanse her? How about Joseph? Any other Prophets? Did the Apostles, who were to spread the inspired Gospel to the world? I cannot think of anyone else, besides Isaiah that got the coal across the smacker treatment, so that is a dead end.
--Example two: when a person gets a new name in Scripture, it's supposed to mean something big is afoot: God is revealing something about their part in the Divine Plan. Abram---> Abraham (father of many). Jacob---> Israel (wrestles with God). Simon ---> Peter (the Rock). And Mary is addressed by the angel, not by her name, but by a new name or title: Mary ---> Full of Grace.
So when in the Scripture does Mary get the new name used besides when the angel is talking to her? When she and Jesus' brothers are waiting outside trying to see Him? Nope, Mary is still called Mary. Peter is called Peter from that day on, with occasional references to Simon or Simon Peter. Indeed the changing of names by God is a sign of big changes, but again, no where else is she called by anything other than Mary...
Matthew 12:47Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?"
49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers!
Is that the reverence found in the Gospels for an immaculate being? No, Jesus gives her no reverence at all, and makes her wait outside and calls the people which He was teaching His brothers and mother. No, this still does not indicate an immaculate Mary.
IF she was she should have been given a special place in the Scriptures, no? Since she is not, can we only assume that the writers of the Gospel did not think so otherwise they would mention it?
It doesn't matter whether you say he is infallible or not. Either the Bible is all you need, or it isn't. If the Bible is all you need, you don't need John Calvin.
I do not hold to many of his teachings, much like I enjoy the writings of Augustine but do not agree with all.
I can imagine that you wouldn't "agree with all," given that you're a Baptist and Augustine was a Catholic.
I can claim just as much as to hold to Augustinianism than Calvinism.
Okay. Why do you add the writings of Augustine to the Bible?
My first bet would be Eastern Orthodox, my second choice would be a rebound to Pentecostal.
"Well, right next to P for Photography is R for Religion. I saw a book of sermonettes by Thomas Aquinas from Sophia Press."
I can't find any evidence that the Photography book exists.
The whole story sounds like a crock to me.
Good post, 1Cor 2:4-15 sums my first thoughts.
both by my doctrine and by my preaching were not persuasive words of wisdom (such as Aristotle's empiricism or Socrates' rationalism) but were in demonstration of the Spirit, and His Omnipotence....
I have my hands full renewing my mind and keeping it on the thinking of Christ continually. I don't see Christ asking Mary for assistance in performing His duties to the Father.
You know, these words mean what they say. If you abandon your bias you can hear this truth. Jesus prayed for unity not 28,000 denominations. Whatever shortcomings the Catholic Church may have we have the Word of Jesus, who is the Word and cannot lie, that the "gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
And I should add that we should "Honor our Father and our Mother." Jesus is our brother, Mary is not a vessel that has been discarded, she is our mother. She is the Queen of the saints in Heaven and as such she can pray for us along with all the saints in Heaven.
You do believe that there are saints in Heaven don't you?
Sounds like a new name to me.
Thank God he has become Catholic! I am very proud of him. He was in darkness and saw the light! Congratulations!
Otto,
As long as you show respect for my faith, I am happy to discuss it. If you refer to the Church in disparaging terms like "sect" then I will not. However, we will probably have to continue this next week as I am going out of town for Christmas and will likely not be online.
Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Blessed Mary had an incomparably more intimate relationship with God than Isaiah did: she was overshadowed by God's colossal generative power. Eternity broke into time, infinity burgeoned into space, and she impregnated with the Word. The Blood spilled for our salvation was formed of her blood only; and the Flesh crucified for the redemption of the world was formed in and from her maternal flesh, with no other human source or contact.
Now. Think this through with me. Isaiah needed to be cleansed with a hot coal to speak the word of God: "thus saith the Lord" --- because his mouth was unclean. Can you not see the contrast with Mary, who was to incarnate the Word of God in her flesh? If she had had a sin nature, and was not only to "carry" the Eternal God in her womb, but to give Him flesh out of her own substance, wouldn't that "substance" have to be purified as were Isaiah's lips? Because her substance doesn't just "touch" or even "represent" Christ, her substance becomes Christ.
Not all the prophets were cleansed with a burning coal, but Isaiah was; and you know what? His prophecies are often called the "Fifth Gospel" or the "Old Testament Gospel" because more than any other prophet, he speaks of the coming Messiah. He was given "pure lips" to speak of His coming in the flesh.
But Mary doesn't just "speak of" His coming: she actually gives her flesh to become His Flesh. And wouldn't she need an extraordinary purity, infinitely greater than Isaiah's?
--Example two: you wrote: "So when in the Scripture does Mary get the new name used besides when the angel is talking to her?"
Not everybody who is given new names or titles is referred to as such every time they are spoken of. Just as one example: after his name is changed, Simon Bar-Jonah is sometimes called Peter, or Cephas, and sometimes still called Simon or even both: Simon Peter. (I'd look up more if I had time.)
Mary, filled with the Holy Spirit and with the Lord of the Universe literally growing in her womb, prophesied "Behold, all generations will call me Blessed" --- and yet she's not called "Blessed" at any other time in the Bible! Except once: when a woman calls out to Jesus, "Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts that nursed You," Jesus says, "Yea, rather, blessed is whoever hears with word of God, and keeps it." So, was Mary's prediction a false prophecy?
Not at all. First of all, as long as there has been a Church, all generations DO call Mary "Blessed." Catholics call her the Blessed Virgin Mary (you can find it in Roman catacombs: "Beata Maria Semper Virgine") and Immaculate Mary and other such titles; Orthodox call her Panagia (All-Holy One), which refers to the same privilege as the angelic exclaimed, "Full of Grace!"
And Jesus' remark to the woman in Luke 11:27-28 ("Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear with Word of God, and keep it") indicates his Mother and many more. Because who more than anyone, "heard the Word of God" and "kept it"? While we cannot receive the Word in our wombs and keep Him there, we can receive the Word in our hearts in fidelity to Him, loving Him and doing His will.
Be it done unto me according to thy Word.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt amongst us.
And so for 2,000 years the Church --- led and instructed by the Holy Spirit, as Christ promised ----has greatly honored her who was so greatly honored by God.
Whoah. Please reference any previous statement of mine which you are referring to, if you are. I have three different people that I am answering and this is just a bit off the topic of each separate conversation, and I really do not want to start a completely new one on the Peter and the Papal succession, AND the saints AND merit and purgatory (which is where all this will end up wandering off to), on top of Mary, Sola Scriptura and whatnot. There are only so many RCC heresies one man can tackle at once! :o)
--As long as you show respect for my faith, I am happy to discuss it. If you refer to the Church in disparaging terms like "sect" then I will not.
I do not think that stating an opinion is disparaging, but if you wish, I will stop referring to it as a heretical sect. That is what I believe and I assume you think my Reformed Baptist faith is also a heretical sect, and I do not take offense if you call it such, as long it is what you believe. I find nothing wrong with not candy-coating opinion as long as it can be discussed fairly and without personal attack and strawman arguments. I would not have you lie to me, and would rather you tell me exactly what you honestly think, and I expect you to challenge my thoughts. Am I wrong to assume you would want the same from me?
--However, we will probably have to continue this next week as I am going out of town for Christmas and will likely not be online.
May God keep you safe on you travels!
Otto
Sorry, but I just do not hold to the Traditions. If you can just find me something in the Scriptures that would indicate support for your assertions, but they just aren't there.
Yes, Mary is Blessed among all women! Having the intimate relationship to Jesus is indeed a blessing beyond my understanding. I am blessed simply having the children I have, but to be honored to raise the Son of God is awesome. But it doesn't mean that Mary is immaculate. It doesn't mean she is sinless. It doesn't mean she didn't have other children. It doesn't mean she is a intermediary for us. That is all stuff that is not seen in the Scriptures. And if it was true IT WOULD BE. It is too big of a story NOT TO BE.
Again, as Luke claims, the certain, secure, and firm truth is stated in his Gospel (thanks A8...). He painstakingly researched this. He was trying to combat traditions which might lead Theophilus astray, and trying to keep Theo on the right path. Mary is just not found to be such a perfected and angelic creature in his writings. Blessed and full of grace, yes. Honored beyond what any parent is, certainly. Sacred, as in set aside for Gods purpose, definitely.
And the traditions have led to many, and yes, not held as true by the RCC officially, but many do worship her, and see her as the source of salvation. The distinction between worship and veneration is simply not clear to many, and is not see at all by the Protestants. Either you pray to none but God, or you pray to any AS gods for their assistance.
Still in the bounds of that Protestant tradition of 'sola scriptura'.
-A8
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