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To: Ottofire
Good morning!--

Blessed Mary had an incomparably more intimate relationship with God than Isaiah did: she was overshadowed by God's colossal generative power. Eternity broke into time, infinity burgeoned into space, and she impregnated with the Word. The Blood spilled for our salvation was formed of her blood only; and the Flesh crucified for the redemption of the world was formed in and from her maternal flesh, with no other human source or contact.

Now. Think this through with me. Isaiah needed to be cleansed with a hot coal to speak the word of God: "thus saith the Lord" --- because his mouth was unclean. Can you not see the contrast with Mary, who was to incarnate the Word of God in her flesh? If she had had a sin nature, and was not only to "carry" the Eternal God in her womb, but to give Him flesh out of her own substance, wouldn't that "substance" have to be purified as were Isaiah's lips? Because her substance doesn't just "touch" or even "represent" Christ, her substance becomes Christ.

Not all the prophets were cleansed with a burning coal, but Isaiah was; and you know what? His prophecies are often called the "Fifth Gospel" or the "Old Testament Gospel" because more than any other prophet, he speaks of the coming Messiah. He was given "pure lips" to speak of His coming in the flesh.

But Mary doesn't just "speak of" His coming: she actually gives her flesh to become His Flesh. And wouldn't she need an extraordinary purity, infinitely greater than Isaiah's?

--Example two: you wrote: "So when in the Scripture does Mary get the new name used besides when the angel is talking to her?"

Not everybody who is given new names or titles is referred to as such every time they are spoken of. Just as one example: after his name is changed, Simon Bar-Jonah is sometimes called Peter, or Cephas, and sometimes still called Simon or even both: Simon Peter. (I'd look up more if I had time.)

Mary, filled with the Holy Spirit and with the Lord of the Universe literally growing in her womb, prophesied "Behold, all generations will call me Blessed" --- and yet she's not called "Blessed" at any other time in the Bible! Except once: when a woman calls out to Jesus, "Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts that nursed You," Jesus says, "Yea, rather, blessed is whoever hears with word of God, and keeps it." So, was Mary's prediction a false prophecy?

Not at all. First of all, as long as there has been a Church, all generations DO call Mary "Blessed." Catholics call her the Blessed Virgin Mary (you can find it in Roman catacombs: "Beata Maria Semper Virgine") and Immaculate Mary and other such titles; Orthodox call her Panagia (All-Holy One), which refers to the same privilege as the angelic exclaimed, "Full of Grace!"

And Jesus' remark to the woman in Luke 11:27-28 ("Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear with Word of God, and keep it") indicates his Mother and many more. Because who more than anyone, "heard the Word of God" and "kept it"? While we cannot receive the Word in our wombs and keep Him there, we can receive the Word in our hearts in fidelity to Him, loving Him and doing His will.

Be it done unto me according to thy Word.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt amongst us.

And so for 2,000 years the Church --- led and instructed by the Holy Spirit, as Christ promised ----has greatly honored her who was so greatly honored by God.

96 posted on 12/22/2006 9:01:17 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Behold, the handmaid of the LORD: be it done to me according to Your Word. ")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Sorry, but I just do not hold to the Traditions. If you can just find me something in the Scriptures that would indicate support for your assertions, but they just aren't there.

Yes, Mary is Blessed among all women! Having the intimate relationship to Jesus is indeed a blessing beyond my understanding. I am blessed simply having the children I have, but to be honored to raise the Son of God is awesome. But it doesn't mean that Mary is immaculate. It doesn't mean she is sinless. It doesn't mean she didn't have other children. It doesn't mean she is a intermediary for us. That is all stuff that is not seen in the Scriptures. And if it was true IT WOULD BE. It is too big of a story NOT TO BE.

Again, as Luke claims, the certain, secure, and firm truth is stated in his Gospel (thanks A8...). He painstakingly researched this. He was trying to combat traditions which might lead Theophilus astray, and trying to keep Theo on the right path. Mary is just not found to be such a perfected and angelic creature in his writings. Blessed and full of grace, yes. Honored beyond what any parent is, certainly. Sacred, as in set aside for Gods purpose, definitely.

And the traditions have led to many, and yes, not held as true by the RCC officially, but many do worship her, and see her as the source of salvation. The distinction between worship and veneration is simply not clear to many, and is not see at all by the Protestants. Either you pray to none but God, or you pray to any AS gods for their assistance.


99 posted on 12/22/2006 11:49:14 AM PST by Ottofire (O great God of highest heaven, Glorify Your Name through me)
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