Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children
By John-Henry Westen
NEW YORK, December 4, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A review of New Line Cinema's The Nativity story by Fr. Angelo Mary Geiger of the Franciscans of the Immaculate in the United States, points out that the film, which opened December 1, misinterprets scripture from a Catholic perspective.
While Fr. Geiger admits that he found the film is "in general, to be a pious and reverential presentation of the Christmas mystery." He adds however, that "not only does the movie get the Virgin Birth wrong, it thoroughly Protestantizes its portrayal of Our Lady."
In Isaiah 7:14 the Bible predicts the coming of the Messiah saying: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Fr. Geiger, in an video blog post, explains that the Catholic Church has taught for over 2000 years that the referenced Scripture showed that Mary would not only conceive the child miraculously, but would give birth to the child miraculously - keeping her physical virginity intact during the birth.
The film, he suggests, in portraying a natural, painful birth of Christ, thus denies the truth of the virginal and miraculous birth of Christ, which, he notes, the Fathers of the Church compared to light passing through glass without breaking it. Fr. Geiger quoted the fourth century St. Augustine on the matter saying. "That same power which brought the body of the young man through closed doors, brought the body of the infant forth from the inviolate womb of the mother."
Fr. Geiger contrasts The Nativity Story with The Passion of the Christ, noting that with the latter, Catholics and Protestants could agree to support it. He suggests, however, that the latter is "a virtual coup against Catholic Mariology".
The characterization of Mary further debases her as Fr. Geiger relates in his review. "Mary in The Nativity lacks depth and stature, and becomes the subject of a treatment on teenage psychology."
Beyond the non-miraculous birth, the biggest let-down for Catholics comes from Director Catherine Hardwicke's own words. Hardwicke explains her rationale in an interview: "We wanted her [Mary] to feel accessible to a young teenager, so she wouldn't seem so far away from their life that it had no meaning for them. I wanted them to see Mary as a girl, as a teenager at first, not perfectly pious from the very first moment. So you see Mary going through stuff with her parents where they say, 'You're going to marry this guy, and these are the rules you have to follow.' Her father is telling her that she's not to have sex with Joseph for a year-and Joseph is standing right there."
Comments Fr. Geiger, "it is rather disconcerting to see Our Blessed Mother portrayed with 'attitude;' asserting herself in a rather anachronistic rebellion against an arranged marriage, choosing her words carefully with her parents, and posing meaningful silences toward those who do not understand her."
Fr. Geiger adds that the film also contains "an overly graphic scene of St. Elizabeth giving birth," which is "just not suitable, in my opinion, for young children to view."
Despite its flaws Fr. Geiger, after viewing the film, also has some good things to say about it. "Today, one must commend any sincere attempt to put Christ back into Christmas, and this film is certainly one of them," he says. "The Nativity Story in no way compares to the masterpiece which is The Passion of the Christ, but it is at least sincere, untainted by cynicism, and a worthy effort by Hollywood to end the prejudice against Christianity in the public square."
And, in addition to a good portrait of St. Joseph, the film offers "at least one cinematic and spiritual triumph" in portraying the Visitation of Mary to St. Elizabeth. "Although the Magnificat is relegated to a kind of epilogue at the movie's end, the meeting between Mary and Elizabeth is otherwise faithful to the scriptures and quite poignant. In a separate scene, the two women experience the concurrent movement of their children in utero and share deeply in each other's joy. I can't think of another piece of celluloid that illustrates the dignity of the unborn child better than this."
See Fr. Geiger's full review here:
http://airmaria.com/
No. We don't agree on that. Go watch 24.
So is the Holy Trinity YOUR secretary, more or less as I said?
Emphasis mine, of course.
Does that cause a rabid frothing at the mouth in anyone else but me????
What affrontery!
So THE TRINITY has to now go through Mary to achieve/receive Glory????
What paragon affrontery!
Because SO MANY of them forsook Holy Spirit's goals, priorites and ways
For their own very fleshly and often bloody goals, priorities and ways.
And it is absolutely staggering to see the vivid history on one side and the denial about the implications on the other. Absolutely mind boggling. Alternate reality stuff indeed.
Yes. In fact, as to the questionalble practices, the Church reformed herself very well.
= = =
I suppose that's the reason we had so many atheist/agnostic priests and higher running around loose helping Che G and Manuel Ortega in Latin America?
Very impressive reform results.
NO! A thousand times no!
The reformers were merely returning to Christ's model that He paid so much for.
Why? Because I know it is not of me but of the God who died for me and saved me. He is my hope. He alone is my peace.
= = =
INDEED.
but they grind to dust.
= = =
Far to often in history, without any shred of seeming caring for what Biblical principles and what precious saints loving God were ground to death in that dust.
Anyone who read the "Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy" will tell you that Vatican 2 did NOT do away with the Latin Mass. It CONTINUES to hold precedence. The Council allowed Mass to be said in the vernacular, keeping Latin as a revered language of the Church.
Here is the pertinent quote:
36.
1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.
2. But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants, according to the regulations on this matter to be laid down separately in subsequent chapters.
3. These norms being observed, it is for the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority mentioned in Art. 22, 2, to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used; their decrees are to be approved, that is, confirmed, by the Apostolic See. And, whenever it seems to be called for, this authority is to consult with bishops of neighboring regions which have the same language.
4. Translations from the Latin text into the mother tongue intended for use in the liturgy must be approved by the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority mentioned above.
Regards
So we venerate them, because we love Christ.
= = = =
AS a shrink and as a Christian, I do not find that REMOTELY logical, plausible or functional.
Giving honor to whom honor is due is layers of magnitude different, lower from veneration.
Veneration is Jr Worship and some folks are insightful enough to own that, some are not.
LOVING CHRIST PUTS HIM FIRST, FOREMOST, ALWAYS IN EVERY REMOTELY REAONABLE WAY.
It does NOT bring Him down to man's level in the sense of attaching all kinds of fleshly doors to approach Him through. He put the flesh to death on the cross and calls us to do the same.
He does not call us to glorify the flesh through a thousand and one flesh focused images and statues.
And those who purely and independently without any preconditioning Biblically Love God out of a pure heart would never imagine stooping to insult that love of Christ by such distractions and substitutes.
Sounds like more of a mentality of shoehorning her into Jr Godship.
Yuck.
But now Blogger, let's get this straight . . .
It takes Mary and Saint umpteump and Saint hippity hop and Saint bless my bones and a thousand and one other saints WITH MARY to effectively bend God the Father's ear. Otherwise, prayer is futile--along with Christ's Blood.
/sar.
Gag me with whatever. What an affrontery to Jesus' Death and Blood and being our INTERCESSOR, our ADVOCATE.
My salvation depends on Marys mediation and union with Christ, because of her exalted position as Mediatrix of all grace.
= = = =
What an UNBIBLICAL, UNGODLY, INSULTING OUTRAGE against the Death and Blood of Jesus The Christ!
I didn't realize it had gotten so horrid.
Quix, your points are valid. But, I'm just trying to understand what the logistics even are. How can they hear all of those prayers? How can Saint Anthony be finding my keys, Pete's chewing gum, Mindy's lost earring, and Slobadov's wallet all at the same time?
I guess it's one of those INSIDE'S BIGGER THAN THE OUTSIDE things . . .
He stops God's whole scheme and schedule of things to catch up on hearing all the individual prayers one at a time.
LOL!
NOT!
There are three problems I see here.
(1) What we see as God's choice, you see as Something we think God HAS to do. If God were to have made Mary some kind of mediatrix, co-mediatrix, deputy under-secretary for mediation, it wouldn't be out of necessity but out of Grace. [And a lemma here seems to be that we think that the "we shall be like Him" of Saint John is more spectacular and mind-boggling in its realization that you seem to think it will be.]
(2)We have a VERY different view of time and Eternity. While we might say God "foresees" something, All times, we think and say when were speaking carefully, are "now" to God. He doesn't look ahead or backwards, we think. [And here the lemma is that the Saints in Heaven will be or are already (It doesn't matter that much what tense you use - as you will see if you think about it) at least to some degree free of the bounds of time.]
(3) We see a continuum, while your vision seems to be more binary. So, you seem to think that if Mary and Anthony can intercede for all the different things that get asked of them, they must be omnipotent. But we envision gradations and degrees. They're not ALL powerful, just MORE powerful, a LOT more powerful.
But even then, it's ALL, every little piece of it, from God. Who knows why he would choose an Italian -- a Paduan -- for crying out loud. But then again, why did He choose Sinai? It's the pagans who would think it would have something to do with Sinai. We think it is grace -- a kind of jeu d'Esprit.
And so, I really must harp on this a little, Of COURSE, not only Jesus but the Holy Trinity is serving us at all times.
The great prayer of Consecration in the Apostolic Constitutions presents everything as done for US! God made light so we could see! Dry land so we would have somewhere to stand! Vegetables and animals so we would have something to eat, and to help us and to delight us!
Jesus says He who would be great among you must be as one who serves. Why do you suppose that is? Because since Creation God has devoted Himself to our service, our salvation,
yes we don't deserve it. Of course we don't. But He is SO eager to shed grace, raining on the just and on the unjust, that he makes it possible for us to hear one another, to speak to one another.
You think it's an outrageous miracle that, as we think, Mary can hear the prayers of the faithful and can intercede. I think you have grown blase' about miracles. I htink it's a miracle that I can strike buttons with my fingers, and electrical signals go through a maze of swithces and finally end up somewhere as signs which, clumped together, give you some notion of what is going on in my alleged mind! That's a frequent occurrence, but no less preposterous than the Mother of My Lord hearing my requests. Frequency ought not to rob you of appreciation of its strange and merciful mystery.
You all say we somehow derogate God. I suggest that maybe you have forgotten how every breath you take, much less every thought you utter, is a wonderful gift, in a universe and lifetime of gifts. You are the bored sophisticates saying,"Yes, yes" He gives us language and itsw effects, so what?" But we are saying, like children,"HE can do ANYTHING! He can make Speech and hearing, HE can glorify the Mother of our Lord! There is no amazing and wonderful thing He cannot do -- and all as a profligate and extravagant display of His Love and generosity! So let us rejoice, with parades and processions, with parties and worship and festivals in the streets."
MD,
Not all YELLING on this thread is in CAPS and colors.
To some of us . . . there are a LOT of extremely outrageous things that beg for SCREAMING AND RENDING clothes.
Sorry. That's just the reality of the widely divergeant perspectives, constructions on reality.
Besides, it's only text. It IS ONLY text. Symbols on a screen.
One can ascribe whatever volume or none--one's self--regarding what's on one's own screen. And one can ascribe whatever response to same--that one wishes--they are only--in and of themselves, rather neutral symbols on a screen.
One can decide that large colorful letters are the poster's thrill of large colorful letters. One can decide that large colorful letters are the poster's addiction to large colorful letters. One can decide that large colorful letters are the poster's experiment with large colorful letters. One can decide that large colorful letters are yelling and be thankful they don't shatter glass from the computer's speakers.
There are all kinds of options possible in construing the reality of large colorful letters and in responding to them.
I understand that you have selected the option you have. You have much company.
Personally, I see no reason to take offense when none is intended.
If I'm yelling, it's at ideas, structures, traditions, etc. not individuals and individuals' hearts and spirits.
I wasn't yelling, though at time on this thread I have yelled as have you. So, we all know how to use our typographical lungs. Back to the subject at hand.
You know from prior conversations that our objection to Marian dogma is not that God did this or that with her but that Catholics have labeled her with the attributes that Scripture gives to God and many are eager to label her with more. We object to prayers to the saints in Heaven because Scripture forbids trying to contact the dead. (And yes, in the earthly sense, they are dead else the Old Testament command was nonsense).
Having studied the apparitions of Mary, I am also very disturbed with Marian adoration and the extent that MILLIONS of souls go through in their "venerating" activities.
Though my examples were deliberately pushing the line a bit, I was trying to get at how you all believe Mary hears ALL of those prayers if she indeed isn't omnipresent and omniscient. So far, I have received "She's with Jesus and he's those things..." and basically a "She can do it all by a miracle and you're blase about miracles if you doubt she can."
No, Mad Dawg. I am not blase about miracles. I believe true miracles happen every day. Life itself is a miracle. Healings are miracles. Miracles happen.
What I am doing is testing the spirits here. And what I see does not compute with Scripture.
The Bible says :1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Why would I want or need another mediator in prayer?
Easton's Bible Dictionary has this to say about Mediator:
one who intervenes between two persons who are at variance, with a view to reconcile them. This word is not found in the Old Testament; but the idea it expresses is found in Job 9:33, in the word "daysman" (q.v.), marg., "umpire." This word is used in the New Testament to denote simply an internuncius, an ambassador, one who acts as a medium of communication between two contracting parties. In this sense Moses is called a mediator in Gal. 3:19. Christ is the one and only mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24). He makes reconciliation between God and man by his all-perfect atoning sacrifice. Such a mediator must be at once divine and human, divine, that his obedience and his sufferings might possess infinite worth, and that he might possess infinite wisdom and knowlege and power to direct all things in the kingdoms of providence and grace which are committed to his hands (Matt. 28:18; John 5:22, 25, 26, 27); and human, that in his work he might represent man, and be capable of rendering obedience to the law and satisfying the claims of justice (Heb. 2:17, 18; 4:15, 16), and that in his glorified humanity he might be the head of a glorified Church (Rom. 8:29). This office involves the three functions of prophet, priest, and king, all of which are discharged by Christ both in his estate of humiliation and exaltation. These functions are so inherent in the one office that the quality appertaining to each gives character to every mediatorial act. They are never separated in the exercise of the office of mediator.
Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
Mary does not fit the role nor is she given the title in Scripture.
So, does she intercede for us? Well, Scripture speaks of intercession:
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Romans 8:27
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
So most of the instances of Intercession speak of Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
I could only find one instance where it refers to us in the NT (there could be more, but this is the one I found):
1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men
And once is enough. We should intercede on behalf of our fellow saints on earth. That is pleasing to God.
But, he never tells us to pray to the dead - ever. Rather, we have a direct line to God's throneroom and Christ Jesus Himself and the Sweet Holy Spirit intercede and mediate for us.
Futhermore, Christ is our advocate. He alone can point to the scars in his hands and say "penalty paid."
Mary was a wonderful woman. She bore our Savior. We love her. She was blessed among women. But that's it.
God indeed CAN do anything He wishes. I'm a Calvinist, remember. I believe He would have been well within His rights to send us all to Hell. He can do whatever He wants that is consistent with His nature (he can not lie). So, if He had chosen to use a human being in the capacity you speak of, as long as it was consistent with his nature He could have done it.
The testimony of Scripture is, however, that we have a direct connection to the Lord. We can approach him directly without fear. He is our Daddy. Our Abba Father. Rom 8:15 ;Gal 4:6 We do not need to pray to saints to pray to Jesus for us to get God's attention. We already have it. And HE is our intercessor, mediator, advocate, guide, Lord, God, friend. Hbr 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
Hbr 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
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