Posted on 08/14/2006 11:19:14 AM PDT by Gamecock
Sola Scriptura is a latin phrase which was coined by the Reformed Church during the 1500's. It means 'scripture solely' or, 'scripture alone.' By these words the faithful Christians of this era were standing up for the Biblical principle that the Holy Scriptures were God's inspired Word, and as such were the sole infallible rule of faith. By definition the Word of God had to be the ultimate authority for the Church, and not (as some had supposed) the Roman catholic church, it's pope, and magisterium. Since the position of the Roman church was mutually exclusive to that of those faithful Christians who protested it (and thus were labled, protestants), both obviously could not be correct. If the faithful Christian Church was going to stand on God's Word as the ultimate or supreme authority, then there would have to be a 'reforming' of that Church. A restoring of faith in the laws of God which the Church had fallen away from. Much like when a criminal reforms himself to now obey the laws which were always there, but which he had previously neglected. Likewise, these faithful Christians understood that they had erred and must return to the former obedience and reliance upon God's law. A good analogy is in the Old Testament when the Priest Hilkiah brought the law of God (that had been previously neglected) to the faithful King Josiah and He, reading God's law, understood this principle of being reformed from breaking the law.
2nd Kings 22:10-13
Likewise these faithful Reformers read God's law and understood that their fathers had not harkened unto the Words of the Book. Thus, on October 31, 1517, for all intents and purposes the Reformation began when a German Monk by the name of Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the Roman Catholic Church door in Wittenberg Germany. The faithful would no longer forsake the laws of God's book in favor of tradition, and would return to the Biblical precepts of not leaning unto their own understanding or that of their Church leaders, but upon the Scriptures alone (Sola Scriptura) as their ultimate authority.
Actually, calling it 'Sola Scriptura' might be contrued as a bit of a misnomer, because it is not a doctrine which teaches that we believe that there are not other authorities, nor that they have no value or place. Rather, it means that all other authorities must be subordinate to the Word of God. Thus the phrase 'Sola scriptura' implies several things. First, that the scriptures are a direct revelation from God, and as such are His authoritative Word. It is also a term which illustrates that the scriptures are all that is necessary for Christian faith and practice today. Not only that the scriptures are sufficient, but that they also are the ultimate and final court of appeal on all doctrinal matters. Because however good and faithful Church fathers may be in giving guidance, all the fathers, pastors, teachers, popes, and councils, are still fallible. The only infallible 'source' for truth is God. And besides God Himself, only His Holy Words (the Scriptures alone) are infallible.
The Reformation doctrine of Sola Scriptura ultimately pointed to a most basic concern of the faithful Church of that day, which was expressed in their cry of Soli Deo Gloria, or, 'to God alone be the Glory.' This expresses the true Christian perspective that God should receive all the Glory, and that this is done by man keeping His Word as their supreme authority. The infallible head of the Church is Christ, and not a fallible man. And so the Authority of the Church must likewise be His infallible Word, and not the words of men. No matter how faithful they might appear, they are still the word of men and thus subordinate to God's word. What is called Sola Scriptura both was, and is, essential to true Christianity. For it is the difference between God's traditions and ordinances, and man's traditions and ordinances.
What some call the oral traditions of the Church are subject to change, development, degeneration, and deviation. There is absolutely no guarantee given by God or by Scripture (His Word) that such an oral tradition would be either preserved, or needed. Indeed, 2nd Timothy chapter 3 strongly implies such was not needed.
2nd Timothy 3:16-17
The Old Testament 'scriptures' thoroughly furnished man of that day unto all good works, and Christ continually referenced it to prove truths. Jesus and others read and quoted Scripture (never any oral traditions, except to condemn them). That's not an insignificant fact. Likewise, when Satan tested Jesus, the Lord made reference to 'the authority of scripture' to prove the devil wrong.
Matthew 4:3-4
What proceeds out of the mouth of God is His Holy, and this is 'written in the Bible.' That is what Jesus says man lives by, and it is what we are to live by. The Word of God, and not the words of men. No matter how faithful Christians may appear, their word is subordinate to God's Word. Jesus could have answered Satan any way that He wanted, for He is God and an original and perfect answer He could have spoken afresh at any moment. But instead, Christ pointed to what was already written in the scriptures as the reply to the adversary. i.e., that was the perfect answer! What God had inspired to be written, not the oral tradition of the day, but what had proceedeth from God's mouth and had been written in His Holy book. And this deferral to what was written in the scriptures is a lesson for all faithful Christians in what authority we should seek to prove Biblical truths. And Jesus did this not only in answering un-biblical assertions, but also when presented with scripture that was taken out of context. Jesus again defers 'to other scriptures' which qualifies the scripture in question. For example:
Matthew 4:5-11
In other words, Jesus replies to scripture taken out of context with an additional scripture which clarifies it (not denies it). In doing this, He makes sure we see the meaning of that first scripture was that, 'Yes, God will watch over us, but that doesn't mean that we can test/tempt the Lord God.' This is just another pertinent example God illustrating the authority of Scripture, even in the face of those who present other scriptures taken out of context. The Perfect answer by Christ to combat erroneous understanding of scripture, was for Him to quote 'additional Scripture' which shed more light on it's true meaning. i.e., scripture was 'still authoritative' over whatever scripture that anyone would attempt to misuse or misapply.
Matthew 4:8
Again, Jesus presents scripture, God's Word, to counter Satan's ideas and visions of glory. He says, 'It is Written!' In other words, Jesus says God's Word declares thus and thus. He never says, the Priests say, or our leaders say, or oral tradition says. Jesus, our example, says, 'it is written.' This is a representative sample or model of the posture we are to take in order to try or test the Spirits to see whether they be of God. We compare their words to God's Word, countering their tradition with the authority of God's Word. The same can be said about any debate of the doctrines of the Church. The correct principle in faithful Hermeneutics is to always defer to sound and ordered exegesis of scripture, and not to traditions or the heads of the Church. This is precisely as Jesus demonstrated in His debates with the religious leaders of His day. He appealed to the Scriptures, not to these congregational leaders, traditions, or any ecclesiastical body. The authority He appealed to, was scripture.
Matthew 21:42
There are some Roman catholic church apologists that declare this doctrine was not even heard of until 'the reformation' of the 16th century. This of course is an inaccurate and self serving claim, which can be proven false quite easily (even apart from scripture). Read this quote from the 5th century, 1100 years before the Reformation and see if you can guess who wrote it:
This Mediator (Jesus Christ), having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the Scripture which is called canonical, which has Paramount Authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves.
Do you know who authored this affirmation of the principle of Sola Scriptura, the doctrine of ultimate or paramount authority of the scriptures? The author is saint Augustine of Hippo. It's a quote taken directly from his book 'City of God' (book 11, Chapter 3). This unambiguous declaration by Augustine is about as definitive a statement for Sola Scriptura as any Protestant declaration I've read. So this argument, by Biblical and historical proofs, fails miserably. The Word of God both is, and was the Supreme authority of the Church. The phrase Sola scriptura is a latin term, but obviously that doesn't mean that what it delineates was not Church doctrine from the beginning. The faithful fathers, Christ Himself, and the Apostles, all deferred to authority of scripture.
Can the scriptures contradict what some allege is 'oral apostolic tradition,' and yet that tradition still be of God? The answer of course is a resounding, No! God is not the author of confusion. The undeniable fact is, two infallible God-breathed sources cannot contradict each other. Else, at least one of them is not infallible. That is a fact. Yet God's Word and Roman catholic church traditions constantly contradict each other. This should alert any faithful student of scripture that one is neither infallible, nor of God. And these are just a few of the myriad of examples..
- The Word of God teaches that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23; Ezekiel 18:4,20), and that all sin is purged and we were purified in Christ, by the cross. Roman catholic traditions teach that sin can be purged later, in a place called Purgatory (place of purifying). This is Heresy!
- The Word of God teaches that the office of bishop and presbyter are the same office (Titus 1) but Roman tradition says they are different offices.
- The Scriptures of God teaches that Christ offered His sacrifice once for all (Hebrews 7:27, 9:28, 10:10), while Roman catholic tradition corrects this, claiming that the Priest sacrifices Christ on the altar at mass.
- The Word of God teaches that we should not use vain repetitions in prayers (Matthew 6:7) thinking that we will be heard for our much speaking, while the Roman catholic traditions teach repeating Hail Mary in prayer as penitence 'as if' God indeed will hear us for our much repetition.
- The Word of God teach that all have sinned except Jesus (Romans 3:10-12, Hebrews 4:15), while Roman catholic traditions claim that's not true, as Mary was also sinless.
- The Holy scriptures teaches that all Christians are Saints and Priests (Ephesians 1:1; 1 Peter 2:9), but Roman Catholic tradition has made Saints and Priests special cases and offices within the Christian community, dealt out by their Church leadership.
- The Word of God says that we are not to bow down to statues (Exodus 20:4-5), but the Roman catholic tradition makes no such claim, nor rebukes Christians for this practice.
- The Word of God says that Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5), but Roman catholic tradition claims Mary is co-mediator with Christ.
- The Word of God says that Jesus Christ is the Rock upon which the Church rests, the foundation stone, and the Head of the Church (Luke 6:48, 1st Peter 2:7-8, Matthew 16:18), But Roman catholic tradition claims that the foundation Rock of the Church is Pope Peter, and that the pontiff is the head of the Church, an aberration which in effect makes God's Church, a two headed Church, with multiple authorities and starting foundation.
- The Word of God says that all Christians can and should know that they have eternal life (1 John 5:13), but Roman catholic tradition says that all Christians cannot and should not know that they have eternal life.
The Reformers understood clearly that the words of our Saviour Jesus Christ to the Pharisees, applied equally to those of their day:
"..thus you have made the commandment of God of non effect by your traditions!" -Matthew 15:6
Comparing these traditions with God's Word, sadly we also understand that this practice of unrighteousness continues today. You simply cannot have tradition and scripture contradicting each other, while claiming both are the infallible teachings of God. It is blatant confusion. Any oral traditions passed down in the church is subject to the written Word of God, as it has always been. As it was for the Scribes and Pharisees. To deny this is tortuous of scripture and of authority.
Moreover, if there was an ongoing oral tradition (which there is not), it still would require a standard point of reference to check itself against, such as God speaking from the Mountain, or the scriptures. True Christians (under God's direction), realize the danger of Church tradition becoming corrupted by fallible men (as had been the case with the Pharisees, and throughout Biblical history), and so faithfulness requires an infallible scriptural check book. Christians led by the Spirit of God understood the need for a supreme final authoritative checkpoint to which every person must be subject. Thus the importance of maintaining the Apostles' and God's authoritative Word became of very great concern to them, even as it had previously with the scribes maintaining the Old Testament books. If we were to totally ignore the facts of history, that there was no Roman church nor Pope making the claims they now do during the first three or four centuries (as the foremost Church historians overwhelmingly attest), then we might fathom this. And if we were to wrongly assume there was such a Church headed by an infallible pope as the Roman church does, then this would not even begin to explain the importance believers placed on maintaining the texts of the New Testament. For indeed there would have been no need to maintain them at all. One would only need to consult the infallible Pope, who, being under God's guidance would know the truth more certainly and accurately than the Apostle's written word. In 2nd Peter 1:19, where Peter said, 'we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it,' that would be worthless.
But of course, true Christians do realize that doctrine and oral tradition are indeed subject to change, development, degeneration, and deviation, and 'therefore' require a standard point of God breathed reference to check itself against. Scripture supplied and continues to supply this check. By this only we can try (test) the spirits to know whether they be of God or not (1st John 4:1). How would we do this without the authority of scripture? How would have the Priest Hilkiah? Tradition which proclaims what is non-scriptural cannot have absolute authority; It may have the authority of age, antiquity, or large consent, but it does not have ultimate compulsion or necessity. In short, there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that any church, any tradition, any pope or minister, is equal to Scripture. Therefore, scripture is the final authority which we try the spirits with.
Since the Bible 'is' the Word of God (as even Roman catholics whole heartily agree), then it's only rational, Biblical, and logical to profess that any other authority, cannot either contradict it, be on a par with it, nor be above it. i.e., there is no authority higher than God (what Word supersedes God's?) and no word on a par with it (what word is as good as God's?) Therefore (again logically, Biblically, and rationally speaking), in order for someone's word to be on a par with God's Word, the one speaking it would have to be God, or at the very least equal to God, or have God speak verbally to him in a voice. The Only other alternative is to be 'quoting' God from His Word. Neither the Pope, a Priest, nor anyone else is equal to God to have his word be on a par with God's Word, nor is God speaking to anyone from the smoke on the mountain or the burning Bush today, or creating new oral scriptures. The Bible is Complete, not incomplete. It needs no further additions, and condemns those who dare to add to it.
This of course is the tangled web in which the Roman church finds itself by placing tradition on a par with God's Word. For unless something is God's Word, then it cannot be equal to God's Word. And simply saying God gave it, is not sufficient for anyone to claim tradition is the Word, just as it wouldn't be for the traditions that the Pharisees held and Jesus condemned, saying, it made the Word of God of non effect.
True, God breathed His Word through the apostles that their words became the 'Word of God,' just as He did Old Testament scripture. But unless God is continuing to write his book (the scriptures) through the Roman church, then that giving of the law through those who penned scripture has ended. If it has not ended, then the Pope must rip out the page of Revelation where God says don't add to His word and throw it away. He must then proclaim the Bible incomplete, and write down every infallible Word that he (supposedly) receives of God, and place it on the pages of the Bible uncondemned for it, as it is the Word of God. ..'if' what he claims is true. If tradition was on a par with God's Word, then it would be God's Word. In fact, then there would 'again' be no oral tradition, as it would join the written Word of God 'as' the Word of God. God's Word is something God wants us to hear and obey. This is the tangled web that is woven by this un-biblical dogma of the old Roman church.
More than that, tradition can become corrupt in the congregation of God (even as it certainly had with the Pharisees in Jesus' day -mark 7:9, and in King Josiah's day), and so common sense dictates that it simply cannot and must not be trusted as the ultimate authority as the Word of God is. The words and doctrines of men are often unjustifiable by scripture, and even contradictory to it. Not surprisingly, scripture bears out the truth that any tradition or ordinance must be subordinate to the Word. Jesus made it quite clear that we simply cannot hold to any traditions which are not subordinate to scripture, and that teaching such doctrines are contrary to the gospel of Christ. Consider wisely:
Mark 7:6-8
This was no slap on the wrist, it was the worst of judgments upon them for setting aside the Word of God in order that they could keep their traditions. The exact same error of the Roman church today. The error of the religious leaders was that they had put tradition on a par with the written Word of God. In fact, they had made it superior to Scripture, as the commandments were interpreted 'by their tradition,' which makes scripture subject to it instead of vice versa. Christ rebuked them in the strongest of terms illustrating that the tradition of their congregation was subject to the scriptures, and scripture not to their tradition. Any argument which denies this (considering scriptures such as this one), is indefensible. Jesus would not have condemned them for their traditions if the tradition of God's chosen people was on a par with scripture. It made no biblical sense then, and it makes no biblical sense now.
Proverbs 30:5-6
This is a solemn declaration that every word of God is tried and pure and that we are not to add to His words, lest we be found liars. This law of God is an enduring restriction on God's revelation. Holy men of old who spake as they were inspired of God, wrote scripture. Those scriptures are now finished or complete. This is not an ongoing book. As God's people, under God's care, we have the authority of God's Word. No other supreme authorities, or institution, or object, is so circumscribed. Note that in Ecclesiastes, after reflecting on the vanity of life, the Preacher summarizes our basic duty as to, 'fear God and keep His commandments (Eccl. 12:13). We must not add to God's Word by claiming traditions are God's Word. Those who love God keep His Word alone as the authority.
Understanding this, we therefore know that those who reject the scripture today as the only 'infallible' rule of faith and practice, ultimately are subordinating the Word of God to tradition by making congregational tradition and leadership the interpreter of God's Word. It sets the words of men in the Church (no matter how faithful they may be) on a par with God's Word, and this is a dangerous and un-biblical thing to do. Every individual is ultimately responsible for what he believes, not the Church, not his Priest, and not his leader. Each man is judged for his own sin. We are all responsible to study the Bible, not leave that for others to do for us. And indeed Jesus Himself said,
John 12:48
No one practicing the Roman church doctrine of Church authority, will be able to stand before God at the judgment and plead, "..the Pope and the Magisterium, or my Priest told me to believe in this or that." There is no such 'excuse' available to man. We are to listen to God's Word rather than their word, and neglecting this, we will be judged for it. We therefore should carefully consider which authority is really infallible, and which we should follow. God's Word (a given), or our church tradition.
John 10;27
What is the voice of Christ? Is it Church leadership, a Priest, the Magisterium, or is it the Word of God? Certainly this is the crux of the matter. The truth is, it is God's Word alone that should be the final authority in matters of faith, practice, and doctrine of the Church (not the only authority, but the final, supreme and ultimate Authority).
The Lord Jesus Christ, replete with examples, taught us this principle. As when the Pharisees argued with Jesus the points of the law of God concerning the Sabbath. Did Jesus petition tradition to speak concerning it? Did He lean to ecumenical counsels? Did He say check with the High Priest? No, He showed that we are to lean upon the written Word.
Matthew 12:3-5
Matthew 19:4-5
Matthew 22:31-32
Luke 10:26
Matthew 22:29
Matthew 26:24
John 5:39
Most Roman catholics object to Sola Scriptura from two distinct positions. They argue that:
(#1) The New Testament references to oral "tradition" (II Thess. 2:15; II Tim. 2:2; II Cor. 11:2) illustrate the unbiblicalness of this teaching, and that(#2) The Scripture nowhere teaches the doctrine.
Isn't it ironic that in both cases 'they appeal to scripture' (though unjustifiably) as the final proof or authority that their traditions are correct? When it suits their purpose, they can always appeal to scripture (as in the keys of the kingdom, Peter the Rock, translations of words describing Mary's other Children, etc.) as the final say, but when it doesn't suit their purpose, curiously, scripture isn't really the final authority on doctrine.
Nevertheless, the first argument is based upon a simplistic and naive understanding of Sola Scriptura in that it presupposes the doctrine means there was never any oral tradition or teaching done. This of course would be ludicrous, as much of the New Testament was oral tradition or teaching of God before it was written down (see the Study on 'Traditions of men vs. Traditions of God'). I have yet to find anyone except catholics themselves who believes Sola Scriptura means what they purport. So this argument is the proverbial "Straw Man" argument. Things revealed to Peter, and which he was inspired of God to say (oral tradition or ordinances) became the written 'Word of God' as they were penned, just as the Old Testament was. But the Bible is complete today. i.e., there is no New Newer Testament book of Pope John, or Pope this or that, as there is a book of Peter, or John, or jude, etc. Because the Word of God is finished, complete, and not to be added to.
In so far as the second argument is concerned, as I've been demonstrating throughout this document, scripture clearly teaches what has been labled 'Sola Scriptura,' from the beginning of it to the end. But it requires the Holy Spirit of God to discern this, just as any doctrine of scripture does. To simply say scripture doesn't teach it, despite the mountain of scriptures supporting it, is to stick ones head in the proverbial sand. With Jesus proving that what He says is true by directing us to the scriptures, it would seem that the Roman church and Pope would likewise direct all to the scriptures. Instead, they claim an infallible authority 'over' the scripture itself, alleging that only they can interpret it. What arrogance and vanity is this?
It would seem to me that given the abundance of examples and illustrations of God, the onus is on the Roman church to 'disprove' the sufficiency of scripture, rather than on the Church to prove it's insufficiency. Because both sides agree scripture 'is' the Word of God, and no other authority is above God. How then is it insufficient? But saying this, the Roman church has a mystery that is a riddle inside an enigma. How is no other authority above God's, while God's Word is subject to church teachings? It makes no sense. How is scripture not sufficient, and yet God declare that there cannot be added anything else to it?
In order to disprove sufficiency of scripture, one would need to show us exactly where oral tradition differs from Scripture. If it doesn't differ, then what is the need of oral tradition, and why does God say scripture thoroughly furnished them unto all good works? And If oral tradition is not found taught in the scriptures (because it presumably differs from), one must then prove that the 'oral revelation' which was not found in scripture, is apostolic and of divine origin. Despite claims of such proof by some, no such proof exists. Therefore, they cannot prove any oral tradition handed down through tradition of a church, is of God. While scripture proves itself, interprets itself, and defines itself, in our comparing it with itself.
The fact is, the reason that the early Churches of the second century were so diligent in collecting and preserving the New Testament writings of Paul, John, Peter, and others in the first place, was to guard against oral teachings which could not be checked for accuracy once the apostles had all died. i.e., it's God himself inspiring them to preserve His Holy Word, as He did with the Old Testament Scriptures before the first advent of Christ. Sola Scriptura does not mean the rejection of every tradition, Sola Scriptura means that any form of tradition must be tested by the higher authority, and that authority can only be God (and thus God's inspired Holy Word, the Bible).
The Roman church error in the dogma of Church traditions lies in creating a dichotomy between two things that cannot be separated, and then using that false dichotomy to deny Sola Scriptura.
1st Corinthians 11:2
There is simply nothing in these passages to support the idea of a separate oral tradition different from what was written. In order to deny Sola Scriptura, we must make the erroneous 'assumption' that what Paul taught in the presence of many witnesses is different from what he wrote to entire Church. Is such an idea founded in reality? Of course not. It is rationalization of oral tradition, not proof of it.
1st Thessalonians. 2:13
There is nothing future about this passage at all. Does Paul say to stand firm and hold fast to traditions that 'will be' delivered? Does Paul say to hold on to interpretations and understandings that have not yet developed? No, this oral teaching which he refers to has already been delivered to the entire Church at Thessalonica. ..Now, what does oral refer to? We first note that the context of the passage is the Gospel and its work among the Thessalonians. The traditions Paul speaks of are not traditions about Mary, Purgatory, Repetitions of hail Mary, or Papal Infallibility. Instead, the traditions Paul refers to have to do with a single topic. One that is close to his heart. He is encouraging these believers to stand firm--in what? Was it in oral traditions about subjects not found in the New Testament? No, he is exhorting them to stand firm in what he has orally taught them of what is in the gospel. The Old Testament concealed is the New Testament revealed. There is simply nothing in these passages to support the theory of a separate oral tradition different from what was written or what Paul taught. It says what Paul taught whether by word, or our epistle or letter. Likewise note that in passages like 2nd Peter 3:2, Peter stresses the consistency of his teaching with that of the prophets, and of the other apostles. The unity of the Old Testament with the apostolic writings is illustrated in passages such as 1st Peter 1:10-12, and 2nd Peter 1:19-21.
One example of what is known as Sola Scriptura is made plain in the Abrahamic covenant. God again reveals Himself, apart from a divine expositor, and pledges Himself to fulfill His covenant (Gen. 15). When Abram seeks confirmation of God's Glorious Promises, the Lord confirms His divine Word by His divine Word.
Hebrews 6:13
No Pontiff or magisterium or sacred tradition is invoked to verify God's Word. That's an important point not to be missed. The supreme authority is the Lord's 'own testimony' to His Word. No further appeal is possible. He didn't swear by the Priests, He swore by Himself. Nothing else could confirm God's own Word but God Alone. Other than Himself, His Holy Word stands alone as the supreme authority. Truly, what other authority is on a par? ..Higher? ..Better? ..from a better platform? ..more Trustworthy? ..infallible? ..the answer is None! Which is why Jesus always directed those with questions and objections to His teachings in the scriptures. Both ancient theology endorses this, as well as the New Testament Church. As in the past, God's people may discern truth by going directly to the scriptures. As God explained in the parable when confronted with the question of how they would believe.
Luke 16:29
And likewise, Christ did not direct anyone to secondary explications or extra-Biblical Hebrew traditions (though plentiful) as authoritative norms, but He directed them continually to examine the Word of God itself. He alternately declares, 'read the scriptures, it is written, search the scriptures, have ye not read, as saith the scriptures, that the scriptures might be fulfilled, as saith Isaiah, etc., etc." And in the New testament, the exhortation to the authority of scripture continues, (Rom. 15:4; Eph. 6:17; II Tim. 3:16; II Pet. 1:19; Rev. 1:3). Scripture commends those who examine the written revelation of God (as open minded, and more noble -Acts 17:11) and illustrates that Christians have the ability to rightly divide and interpret scripture apart from any (supposed) infallible interpreter whether Church or pontiff (II Tim. 2:15; Acts 17:11). Interpretation must come from the Word of God. As a little child humbly, honestly and simplistically asked:
And all God's people said, ...A M E N ! Out of the mouth of babes!
For knowing the nature of man, that indeed is a good question. Again, note the manner in which Christ refuted error. It was, 'God said thus, but you say..' (Matt. 15:4-5; 10-11). That was the manner in which He drew a clear, concise contrast between the written Word of God and the traditions of men. Let that be a lesson unto us.
1st Peter 2:21
We can readily understand the frustration of those who are indoctrinated and thus think Christians should listen to the Roman church instead of God, and how it's annoying to them when we won't bow to that church authority. But there is a very clear warning about making man the authority in the Church in 2nd Thessalonians 2. Man must never sit to 'rule' in the Temple of God 'as if' he was God. Only God can rule (have ultimate authority) over the Church. And God's Word is the Bible. And so really, what's to debate?
The fact is, the only way that man is going to stand with the righteous, overcoming in Christ, is if he has 'kept' the Word of God as truth, and the word of man as error. Belief in the Word of God over man's words of tradition is what separates true believers from false ones. It's what separates those who can and will be deceived, from the Elect who can never be deceived into false Gospels. We know what the truth is because we know 'where' the truth is. It's in the Word from God alone, not in the men who lead the Church. The faithful Church is the witness of God's truth. It bears testimony to God's truth, and that's what makes it the Pillar and ground of this truth. Faithfulness to truth (which is God's Word, not man's word) makes us as a tree planted by the rivers of life. God's Word is true. As it is written,
Romans 3:3
The truth is in God's Word, not in the words of Pontiff J., or Pastor Brown, or Church tradition 88, or Tony Warren. The Truth is in God's Word. And if we don't read it in God's Word, then it's not God's Word. In determining which word has the authority, let God be true, and every man a Liar.
Let us therefore remember that scripture declares that if we build upon a foundation that is not the Word of God, and will not hear God's Word, then we build on a foundation which will crumble when the winds blow and the rains come (luke 6:47-49). God likens us then to a foolish man. The wise in Christ will build upon God's Word alone as the supreme authority. Sola Scriptura! A firm foundation on the Word of God, which will never fall.
May the Lord who is Gracious and merciful above all, give us the wisdom and understanding to come to the truth of His most Holy Word.
A m e n !
Copyright ©1998 Tony Warren
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Created 8/3/98 / Last Modified 3/23/02
OK. Like I posted before, I don't know much about other Church historical people's or documents. My studies have focused mostly on what the Scriptures themselves say.
Whatever you do, don't take this comment about what the apostle John allegedly said at face value.
The fact is we do not know what the apostle John may or may not have said about the gospel of Mark. For all we know he said nothing. There is a tradition within the church that Papias was a disciple of the presbyter named John. Not the apostle. Papias never makes any reference to having been a disciple of the apostle John. What we have from Papias comes down to us from other, later church fathers, like Eusebius. His own writings have disappeared. All we have are fragments quoted in other sources. In one place Papias admits that he received nothing directly from the apostles, but only from an early "oral tradition".
So, ultimately this alleged comment about Mark's writing counts for nothing. It's opart of an opral tradition would dubious roots in the early church.
We get our true understanding of Scripture from Scripture itself.
Absolutely
The only sign that Jesus Christ would give that he was the messiah was that he would be in the "heart of the earth" the same amount of time that Jonah was in the fish:
Mat 12:38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."
Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Mat 12:40 for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
So how long was Jonah in the fish?
Jon 1:17 And the LORD appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish three days and three nights.
Your position is that Jonah was NOT literally in the fish for three days and three nights and that this is an idiom. He was really literally in the fish for only 1 day and 2 nights, you say.
So the scribes, Pharisees and an "increasing crowd" (Luke 11:29) were told by Jesus Christ that the sign that Jesus was the messiah was that he would be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights.
This is the ONLY sign Christ gave that he was the messiah, so I'm pretty sure that you would agree that it be accurate.
So how long did the scribes and the pharisees and the increasing crowd think Jonah was really in the fish?
If it is an idiom then they had NO IDEA! The only sign that Jesus gave was a sham sign, a trick, because nobody really knew how long Jonah was in the fish. After all, there was nothing in their scripture or tradition to indicate that it was anything but a literal 3 days and 3 nights. If it wasn't, then the sign that Jesus gave that he was the messiah was a sham.
However, if they understood it to be a literal three days and three nights, then Jesus Christ HAD to be in the heart of the earth a literal three days and three nights or else he WAS NOT the messiah.
To top it off, the sign that Jesus gave was a KNOWN period of time. Being God incarnate, he knew exactly how long he would be in the heart of the earth and how long Jonah was in the fish. Yet you insist that he specified an inexact amount of time for both, preferring to use a vague idiom instead.
Your position makes no scriptural sense whatsoever. The only thing that harmonizes scripture and fulfills the sign of Jesus being the Christ was exactly what Jesus the Christ said:
Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Mat 12:40 for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
A literal three days and a literal three nights.
Jesus refers to himself countless times in scripture as the "son of man". Well, not "countless", but 84 times. He is referred to as the "son of man" in all 4 gospels as well as Acts, Hebrews and Revelation.
In fact Acts explicitly identifies Christ as the "son of man".
Act 7:55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;
Act 7:56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
So on scriptural grounds Jesus Christ is indeed the son of man and Matthew 12:40 is indeed referring to Jesus Christ.
As for the "heart of the earth", a more credible explanation is that Jesus used language familiar to the scribes, pharisees and increasing crowd.
Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
"Belly" is:
mê‛eh
may-aw'
From an unused root probably meaning to be soft; used only in plural the intestines, or (collectively) the abdomen, figuratively sympathy; by implication a vest; by extension the stomach, the uterus (or of men, the seat of generation), the heart (figuratively): - belly, bowels, X heart, womb.
The same word is translated "heart" here:
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
So Christ was making a clear comparison between being in the "heart" (or middle, center, bowels, etc.) of the fish, with being in the "heart of the earth" and was using phrasing that would convey the meaning more accurately and make more of an impact to his listeners.
You're surprised that reading, studying and discussing God's word is done on his holy sabbath?
Sigh. I never made the claim that Jesus did NOT ever refer to himself by the phrase "son of man". I already had to point that out in post 231. I get the impression that the number one goal here is for people to shout past each other in order to push their pet doctrines.
I was trying to point out how traditions and doctrines risk going awry, when people assume and cling to interpretations that are not demanded by the text. Kind of a Bible study version of verifying one's scientific methods: searching for and analyzing places in the text where experimental error is possible. It's tedious and it sure irritates people, but oh well. That's life.
Ireneus also credits Papias with being a "Hearer of The APOSTLE John" as well as a companion to Polycarp. We now have two early Church Fathers who agree on that point. You can find the statement of fact in Book V, Chapter XXX, Paragraph 4. It says......."And these things are born witness to in writing by Papias, the hearer of John, and a companion of Polycarp".
I doubt Ireneus, being himself a disciple of Polycarp, would make this distinction about Papias. Both Eusebius and Ireneus lay claim to Papias being a hearer of John......so maybe there is some credence to my contention that the Apostle told the folks to be cautious when reading Mark. But, if you would like to disregard this as it is not scripture, that is fine by me.
You still have to deal with the obvious facts that the Sabbath in [Mark 16:1] is not the weekly....but the High Sabbath spoken of in [John 19:31]. You must also deal with the fact that the only place in the four gospels that speaks of an early Sunday morning visit to the tomb (in the Greek) is Mark 16:2 and is easily proved to be other women....not Mary Magdalene and friends who have visited earlier the previous afternoon.
Thank you, Douglas, for pointing out to our friends that we do indeed study and discuss God's word on His Holy Sabbaths.
Because the Roman Church insists that Friday was the day of crucifixion is no reason you should keep that tradition. The Passover Lamb was to be slaughtered on the 14th of the month and most any historical source you go to will agree that the year of birth was anywhere from 3 to 6 A.D.
Indeed, if you look at the year 33 A.D. you will see that the day of preparation from Leviticus 23 (Nisan 14) falls on a Friday. This lines up perfectly with the Roman view of things.....but not scripture. It does not allow the non Sabbath day to purchase and prepare the spices spoken of in [Mark 16:1] and [Luke 23:56] and then.....rest another day for "ANOTHER" Sabbath.
A more appropriate calendar is 30 A.D. where the 14th falls on a Wednesday...a High Sabbath day (Unleavened Bread) on a Thursday...a non Sabbath day to purchase and prepare spices falls on a Friday...and a weekly Sabbath day to observe, according to the commandment, on a Saturday!
Our Lord came out of the tomb shortly before sunset on the Sabbath and to say a Sunday resurrection is scriptural, you have to invent a different timetable.
The context isn't about the sabbath, but about the time that Christ spent in the grave. The reason for quoting the verse was to show that there is a scriptural precedent, from the mouth of Christ, to show that he can and did consider a day and a night more than just "part" of day and night.
God didn't command Sabbath keeping for the whole world, just the Jews in Israel.
You're right in that he didn't give the sabbath commandment for the whole world. He only gave it to all of those who wish to worship the one, true God. This included Israel AND gentiles:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
That sabbath commandment is the only one of the ten commandments that God said specifically that non-Israelites, strangers, should observe.
There was no time conflicts for the Jews of Israel when this was in effect.
The sabbath varies, as you pointed out, from place to place. Wherever you are, at sunset, on the 7th day, begins the sabbath. There is scriptural precedent for this in the book of Daniel where Daniel was in captivity in Babylon and kept the sabbath according to the local sunset on the 7th day.
You don't run into these conflicts with moral laws, just the ceremonial law of the Sabbath.
Sure you do. It's called "moral relativism" and it's often the justfication for breaking all of God's commandments. And the sabbath is a moral law.
1)Never commanded by Jesus, even with plenty of opportunities.
The sabbath commandment was written by Christ at Sinai, with his own finger, before he became incarnate.
2)Never mentioned as a sin in the New Testament when sins are listed (breaking the Sabbath that is)
Sure it is:
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
The sabbath is part of God's law. Transgressing it is the same as idolatry or taking God's name in vain.
3)The other 9 commandments are rementioned in the New Testament, but the "Remember the Sabbath" is not.
Sure it is:
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
4)Moral laws are "written on the heart" (Ask any "lost tribesman" what murder is, and then ask what keeping the Sabbath is)
Every human alive was born a sinner. There is no moral law written on anyone's heart, except those who have God's holy spirit. The scripture you're referring to is describing this event.
5)Jesus "broke" the Sabbath (only in the Pharisee's eyes because the failed to recognize that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath). Read John 9:15 and ask yourself why Jesus did not speak against those accusations?
Jesus didn't break the sabbath. It's impossible for him to sin. He did violate manmade, hypocritical rules created and instituted by men, but he never broke the scriptural sabbath.
6)No where in the OT or NT is the Sabbath given for all mankind to keep perpetually. Rather it is given to a specific nation at a specific time until Christ. (Galatians 3:19)
You're right. Only those who worship the one, true God were commanded to keep the sabbath perpetually. In fact, God established a special covenant for this purpose:
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the sabbath in response to how long Jesus was in the grave, but I'm going to break this into two posts to separate the issues.
Oh, okay I see. Jesus did not die on a Friday. He was crucified and died just before sunset Wednesday. He was placed in the grave at or just before sunset.He was resurrected on the sabbath, just before sunset, three days and three nights later.
The "third day"...day 1 = Thursday, day 2 = Friday, day 3 = Saturday. Saturday was the third day.
Do have a complete answer on why the Jonah conundrum...no. But you are obviously reaching to have "three days and nights" overrule "third day" and Sunday.
There is no conundrum if you simply believe that Jonah was actually in the fish literally three days and three nights and if you believe Christ when he said that was the sign that he was the messiah.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Thank you Diego for your excellent references on this thread. I'm really enjoying the research and study.
Sorry, I was just pointing out that there is more than adequate scriptural evidence to point out that indeed Matthew 12:40 was referring to Christ.
I was trying to point out how traditions and doctrines risk going awry, when people assume and cling to interpretations that are not demanded by the text.
Oh, I certainly agree with that. However, the text should also not be isolated in a particular verse. Considering the context, it's much more reasonable that "son of man" in Matthew 12:40 is referring to Jesus Christ. He was in the grave (heart of the earth) for three days and three nights just as Jonah was in the fish for three days and three nights.
Kind of a Bible study version of verifying one's scientific methods: searching for and analyzing places in the text where experimental error is possible. It's tedious and it sure irritates people, but oh well. That's life.
I'm all for that. However there's a difference between embracing a particular viewpoint because you CAN make it fit and truth. I think your "heart of the earth" view is well thought out and interesting (You've posted it at least one other time and I did study it), but sometimes the simplest explanation really is the correct one.
My mistake....it should be Ireneus Book V, Chapter 33, Paragraph 4 instead of Chapter XXX.
If it wasn't exactly the same time as Jonas was in the whale, why did Jesus go out of His way to use that exact verse? Personally, I'm cool with a Sunday morning resurrection, but then Jesus would have had to been crucified on Thursday and the latest. Friday/Sunday isn't close enough to 3 days/3 nights for me. Diego's exposition on Wednesday Crucifixion/Thursday Passover/Sabbath resurection make a lot of sense to me. (I bet you didn't see that coming:))
I was rude to you and I shouldn't have been. I was peeved about your take on SDA's and that set me off. I am upset that SDA's don't ever defend their faith here on FR.
I was being sarcastic to topcat because we go back a ways. My sarcasm wasn't supposed to lead into an attack. Sorry, topcat.
I do wish y'all would read that Bible as well as you read the Bill of Rights!
Thanks, Douglas. How this can be debatable to those in Bible churches is perplexing.
A woman and came to our services today with her 2 daughters. She showed me the definition of the Sabbath in the back of her KJV (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) and it bothered her. She asked her Baptist Pastor about the Sabbath and he actually fessed up. She was also bothered by the false Christmas holiday. Let us give praise to God in our prayers tonight for this blessing.
Yeah....and if you work it backward from there you'll find that the traditional "Palm Sunday" arrival in Jerusalem was actually happening on the 10th of the month, a Sabbath (Saturday) and was the day of The Selection of The Lamb.....who was our Passover.
Isn't it funny how everything seems to line up when you get the sequence correct?
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