Did Pope Perform Miracle After His Death?

washingtonpost.com ^ | NICOLE WINFIELD

[tbird5]

OME -- The sudden recovery of a young French nun suffering from Parkinson's disease is at the heart of the sainthood case for Pope John Paul II, the Polish priest who heads the inquiry said Monday.

The Vatican needs to confirm a miracle after John Paul's death for the pontiff to be beatified, the first step toward his possible canonization.

Monsignor Slawomir Oder told The Associated Press in an interview that an official inquiry into the nun's inexplicable recovery was beginning this week.

[kstewskis]

So, asking any dead person to pray for you is idolatry according to scripture

That's my point. Their souls are not "dead," they are alive in Christ, no?

Luke 23:43 "Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise."

[iluvlucy]

"Why yes, I am... I would say that any religious group that prays to the dead in direct contravention of scripture and then ascribes miracle cures to that dead person would in fact be guilty of idolatry"

Well then you are not talking about the Catholic Church since what they do is according to Scripture. For example the bones of a Righteous man brought a man back to life in the Old Testament. And as to praying for all souls than I suggest you read more of the Old Testament. Of course you may be missing a few books since every King James Version had several more books in the original. Those books were in everyone of my Families Old Family Bible by it is rare to find them in any KJV printed after 1885.

Do you want a link to prove it? I am just begging for you to ask for that. Not that it will change one thing. Some people see things the way they want to see them regardless of evidence.

[CherylBower]

Do you really not see the difference in "praying to" and "praying for"?

I pray to Jesus for my family, friends, enemies, sometimes. I don't pray to Mary or any Pope or any other person or being for them to pray to Jesus for me. What is the point in having a personal relationship with Christ, if you have to go through another person to get to him?

He is MY savior, not because of something I or someone else did, but just because he loves me.

[Petronski]

I question the Post's headline. I believe the Church requires a finding of miracle(s) result from the intercession of the one who would be canonized.

Of course the Pope himself did not perform the miracle; and the miracle itself, in any event, comes from God, not the saint.

[MrBlueSky2005]

Anyone seeking healing should go directly to the Lord Jesus not a dead pope

So in a difficult time, you do not ask your friends, family, and other to offer prayers up on your behalf, in addition to praying yourself? It is the same concept.

[The Lumster]

This is no different than your or I praying for an ill family member or asking another person to offer prayers up

No different???? I'd say asking a living person for prayer is very different than asking a dead pope. Asking a living church elder for prayer is proper (James 5:14) Seeking the assistance of the dead on any way is forbidden (Deut 18:11)

Again I say you guys need to read your bible for yourself instead of depending on "the teaching" of your apostate leaders. They are leading all of you to hell.

[MineralMan]

"It is amazing the lengths to which catholics will go in order to hold on to their idolatry."

You know, this is getting tiresome. Roman Catholics have a slightly different understanding of Christianity than you do. I have no idea what your denominational beliefs are, but they're different from those who are members of other denominations.

You may be a full-immersion Baptism guy. Someone else believes that sprinkling is adequate. Catholics baptise infants. Baptists require that baptismal candidates be of age.

So? You can quote a few verses of the Bible. So can I. So can anyone who has studied it.

Catholics are Christians. You, I assume, are also a Christian. Why call anyone names? It's unseemly. You share a basic belief in the same deity. You share a basic belief in Jesus as a savior. I can guarantee you that there are Christians who would find whatever group you happen to belong to to be in error.

Let it go. Worship as you choose and let others worship as they choose. Their worship is none of your affair.

[Petronski]

Good thing the worship of idols doesn't take place in the Catholic Church.

[FreedomForce]

The movie is called "Millions." Nice little film.

[Antoninus]

I'm betting they're going to say it's a miracle. The RCC desperately wants to canonize John Paul II. Myself, I'm not big on miracles.

For someone who is neither Catholic nor a believer in miracles, nor a believer in God, you sure jumped on this thread in a hurry.

I am constantly amazed by the fascination displayed by atheists for something they proclaim they don't believe in.

[VeniVidiVici]

If my glass of water becomes wine, by my taste test, then I'll call it a miracle. You just let me know where and when to show up.

See, I wasn't so much interested in *why* you don't believe in miracles, I was most interested in *what* would be a miracle to you and what that would do to your atheism?

I have no doubt you believe in nothing other than that you can see or touch. My point was to the millions of people of faith, they don't care if you can prove a "miracle" not a miracle. Their faith is all they need to believe in the miracle and the Church.

That's the part that fascinates me: why don't atheists see that people of faith don't really care what they believe? Folks attack you, not for proving the miracle ordinary, but for attacking their faith.

Personally I think you do realize that - which is why you do it.

[MineralMan]

No, you're right, it doesn't. I did not say that it did. I leave that to the Lumsters of this world. I understand the RCC's beliefs and know that it does not involve any idolatry.

[TAdams8591]

Most interesting.

[XJarhead]

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;1Tim 2:5

Okay, then what about Matthew 2:13? Wasn't it an angel who appeared to Joseph rather than God directly? Didn't Gabriel appear to Mary?

If you're going to interpret 1Tim 2:5 so literally for your own purposes, then explaining away the appearance of angels who often acted as intermediaries between God and men is going to be pretty tough.

[MineralMan]

"I am constantly amazed by the fascination displayed by atheists for something they proclaim they don't believe in."

My friend, why should I not be interested in an organization that has influenced history more than any other. Of course I'm interested in the Roman Catholic Church, specifically, and in Christianity in general.

Why are you amazed? I'm a history buff, with a specialized interest in the role that religion plays in history.

[onyx]

Again I say you guys need to read your bible for yourself instead of depending on "the teaching" of your apostate leaders. They are leading all of you to hell.




I've almost had my fill of you.

[Antoninus]

Wanna bet?

If you are claiming that the Catholic Church teaches that saints perform miracles in their own right, then you are speaking falsely.

Check Commandment #8.

[Petronski]

Saint Patrick was not a Catholic.

You cannot be serious. LOL

[The Lumster]

Of course you may be missing a few books since every King James Version had several more books in the original

Oh, I see.. the bible that we have is not reliable and only the catholics have the super secret version with all this other stuff in it that supports their idolatrous practices.

Gnosticism pure and simple

[MineralMan]

"That's the part that fascinates me: why don't atheists see that people of faith don't really care what they believe? Folks attack you, not for proving the miracle ordinary, but for attacking their faith. "

I know that people believe in lots of things. I'm skeptical of "miracles." I'm especially skeptical of miraculous cures. I don't care what others believe, but I'm interested in what they believe.