[Catholic] Tradition catching on with Baptists [Ecumenical Ash Wed. Service]

Birmingham News ^ | Wednesday, March 01, 2006 | Greg Garrison

[Full Court]

Tradition catching on with Baptists Protestants begin to take part in Ash Wednesday for its theological lessons Wednesday, March 01, 2006 GREG GARRISON News staff writer It used to be that Baptists had nothing to do with Ash Wednesday, a liturgical holiday they associated with Catholics. No more. "It's a good way of putting the congregation in the right mind-set to prepare for Easter," said the Rev. Christopher Hamlin, pastor of Tabernacle Baptist Church in Smithfield. An ecumenical service at 6:30 tonight at Our Lady Queen of the Universe Catholic Church will include participation by three Baptist churches - Baptist Church of the Covenant and Trinity Baptist, both on Southside, and Tabernacle. "For us to go to the Catholic church, that's something new as Baptists," said the Rev. Sarah Jackson Shelton, the Covenant pastor. "It unites us as the bigger church, and with a larger tradition. ... It's being part of a sacred story that belongs to all of us." Other Baptist churches observe the tradition on their own. Fellowship of the Valley, for example, will have a service at 7 tonight at the Lake Cyrus Clubhouse in Hoover. "It's an appreciation for the symbols of our faith, an opportunity to see, feel and touch those symbols," said the fellowship's pastor, the Rev. Michial Lewis. Lewis said the Reformation of the 1500s, when Martin Luther led a reaction against abuses in the Roman Catholic Church, resulted in rejection of traditions such as Lent by many Protestants. "We do emphasize that our relationship with Christ is through faith alone, and the reformers wanted to avoid the appearance that we gain acceptance with God through rituals or symbols," Lewis said. "Now, people can understand the difference. These symbols come alongside as holy reminders." Robert Hodgson, dean of the Nida Institute for Biblical Scholarship at the American Bible Society in New York City, said many evangelicals are beginning to see the biblical roots of Lent. "Jesus goes into the wilderness for 40 days and disciplines himself with fasting and prayer." The 40 days of Lent are preparation for Easter, when Christians celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. Easter is April 16 this year for more than a billion Western Christians and April 23 for Eastern Orthodox. Baptists are taking an increased interest in the liturgical season for its theological lessons, Shelton said. "It's important for us to take the opportunity to confess our sin." During many Christian observances of Ash Wednesday, the minister rubs ashes on the foreheads of congregants and says, "You are dust and to dust you shall return," quoting a verse from Genesis. The wearing of ashes is prominent in the New Testament with John the Baptist, who called for repentance and wore sackcloth and ashes. "It's the outward, visible symbol of something that's happening internally," Shelton said. "We too will return to ashes," she said. "There's life beyond that, and hope beyond what we experience in this life." E-mail: ggarrison@bhamnews.com © 2006 The Birmingham News © 2006 al.com All Rights Reserved.

[wmfights]

"Psalm 45:9 Kings' daughters are among your honorable women. At your right hand the queen stands in gold of Ophir."
If you read this Christologically, as the Church always has, you realize that if Christ is the King, his mother is ---- ta-daah! --- the Queen Mother."

Obviously this is your church's teaching. Your church encourages you to pray to her and elevates her status to that of a equal of GOD. Look at the title this church uses, a variation of it is not uncommon.

Pagans use to have the "Queen of Babylon" that they prayed to. I'm not sure but I suspect that this where all this began in your church, when pagans were incorporated into the church during Constantine's era they brought some of their beliefs with them. Whatever caused this misplaced worship doesn't really matter, its wrong.
___________________________________
"Besides, it's God's delight to humble the exalted and exalt the humble. And it would be hard to find anybody more humble than Mary of Galilee."

I certainly can't disagree. Mary was truly blessed and was a noble servant of GOD. She is not a co-redemptress.

[Full Court]

However, I have no problem with the insight that if Christ is King the whole family is royal.

Of course we are. But not through genetics.

Only through faith.

Luke 8:20  And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.

21  And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

[Full Court]

The Waldenses are one group where Baptists could find many similarities. (particularly around the Reformation) as well as the Petrobrusians.

Excellent post!

More Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com

[Full Court]

I'm thinking, we're family: and Our Father likes to see us drawing nearer to each other as we draw nearer to Him.

But we do not believe that we are saved in the same manner.

That means someone is wrong, and someone is right. The one who is right will go to Heaven and harsh as it may sound, the one who is wrong is going to Hell.

Now if your family is headed for Hell, since they reject Catholic doctrine, wouldn't you want them to convert>

Because if you were my Catholic aunt, I'd want you to be a born again believer in Jesus Christ alone, no sacraments or works. Because I'd want you to be in Heaven with me.

I don't even know you and I still want that same thing for you.

[Full Court]

Lutherans believe in Sola Scriptura

Then why do they baptize unbelievers?

[Full Court]

But its not Biblical! /sarcasm off.

I sure wouldn't do it.

[kstewskis]

The season of Lent begins with the ancient practice of marking the baptized with ashes as a public and communal sign of penance (no. 1656).

Jay, read this American Mother's post and link.

Thanks for posting this AAM!

[kstewskis]

....SIGH....

/giggle!

[Full Court]

But why on a Wed?

And didn't Jesus condemn public practices such as this?

[Full Court]

Matthew 6:2  Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:5  ¶And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:16  ¶Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward

[A.A. Cunningham]

but if I were to compare the doctrines of Catholicism in say 300 and compare them with today I would see something quite different as well.

Examples?

[A.A. Cunningham]

and elevates her status to that of a equal of GOD.

Incorrect.

She is not a co-redemptress.

If you'e going to attempt to critique at least put forth the effort to be accurate. The term is Co-redemptrix, which is Latin for the woman with the Redeemer, not the woman equal to the Redeemer. The Church has never taught that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the equal of Christ. Quite the contrary.

[Full Court]

Examples?

1. Prayers for the dead .....300 AD
2. Making the sign of the cross .....300 AD
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints .....375 A.D
4. Use of images in worship .....375 A D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration .....394 AD
6. Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, "Mother of God" applied at Council of Ephesus .....431 AD.
7. Extreme Unction (Last Rites) .....526 AD
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory I .....593 AD
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints .....600 AD
10. Worship of cross, images & relics .....786 AD
11. Canonization of dead saints .....995 AD
12. Celibacy of priesthood .....1079 AD
13. The Rosary .....1090 AD
14. Indulgences .....1190 AD
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III .....1215 AD
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest .....1215 AD
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host) .....1220 AD
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion .....1414 AD
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma .....1439 AD
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed .....1439 AD
21. Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent .....1545 AD
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible .....1546 AD
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary .....1854 AD
24. Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican Council .....1870 AD
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) .....1950 AD
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Roman Catholic Church .....1965 AD

Although some of the preceding Roman Catholic practicesare now being questioned by many individuals inside and outside the church, none have been officially repudiated and all continue to be practiced by millions of Catholics around the world. The urgent need today is for Roman Catholics, as well as all who claim to be Christians, to examine their own beliefs and the teachings of their churches by the only sure standard -the Bible. Whatever contradicts, adds to or subtracts from the sixty-six books of the Old and the New Testaments, is error no matter how many may cling to it.

by Marion H. Reynolds, Jr.

[kstewskis]

But why on a Wed?

Ash Wendesday starts 40 days before Easter Sunday, that's why it turns out to be Wednesday. Lent lasts for 40 days, as was how long Jesus spent in the desert.

And didn't Jesus condemn public practices such as this?

He condemned the outward bragging of penances, and of those who did the opposite (toot their horn for the sake of...tooting their horn...no humility there)

Think Ted Kennedy here as an example. He (like many other liberal "CINO's) fit this description.

I've pinged some folks here that might be more versed in this canon, and will sight biblical background.

I can't think clearly now, I have a headache, and it's past my pumpkin time :) I'll try to get back to you later.

[Blogger]

Note that some of the practices re Mary are because Mary said so in some appearance somewhere. Also, I believe infant baptism was fully instituted in the 4th century.

[getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL]

How old is that book? Gosh, I had that one and its followup book at least 20 years ago. I remember Father Strum-a Tune. Lol!

Oh, now wait a minute. Maybe I'm confusing it with the preppy handbook from the early 80s? Lol!

[fatima]

Well I remember in the gospel him going to John to be baptized.

[fatima]

Thanks for the ping kstewskis.

[annalex]

None of the Catholic teachings, practices, and devotions contradict the scripture. Why don't you worry about your own faith?

[TAdams8591]

That's those Catholics for ya. They refuse to change no matter how many times you tell'em. /sarcasm