Eastern Orthodox at Pope's Funeral? (Vanity)

[Agrarian]

Is this what the protocol is in the Orthodox Church? That is to say, when an EP dies, does the Patriarch of Alexandria or another of the Patriarchs preside at the funeral?

There is really no particular precedent for this, I would think, since the traditions that exist would have developed during the time when funerals would take place before those in distant cities could learn of the death of a Patriarch, let alone get there for the service. But in the modern era, when such travel is possible, I really don't know what has been done.

It is my guess that it would be the responsibility and privilege of the senior-most hierarch within the deceased primate's local church to serve the funeral, but that this hierarch would likely invite a Patriarch, if one was present, to serve the funeral. I would also guess that the Patriarch in question would express thanks, but decline.

Again, this is just my gut-level liturgical instinct. I may ask some of my Typikon-expert friends, since it is an interesting question. Of course, we won't have to worry about having to deal with the question vis a vis the Pope and the EP in our lifetime...

[Siobhan]

Not properly an Arabic accent, but rather a Coptic accent more reflective of their liturgical language and the way it beautifies their speaking of Arabic and flavours their speaking of Greek. Egyptian Arabic is very different from Arabic spoken elsewhere to begin with (the Coptic influence in part), and there were moments where prayers were said in Greek that the Patriarch would have normally said in his own liturgical language in Egypt (for him the liturgical language is never Arabic in Egypt - as I recall - though some portions of of the Liturgy are in Greek).

[Romulus]

My hat off to Patriarch Alexy (Russia) and the Pavle (Serbia) for not attending as second-class citizens.

Oh, by all means. It's at times like this that insisting on the rightful dignity due one reminds the rest of the world what's so special about being Christian.

[Romulus]

Having just watched the tape via EWTN, I see that silly ass John Stafford's utter ignorance of the hymn "Christos anesti ek nekron". Poor booby. It was a beautiful addition after the Latin Rite absolution, and plainly a fraternal gesture to the Eastern Churches. It seems Western prelates in general are far behind the leadership of their late Patriarch.

Siobhan, I notice also that Piero Marini seems to have been mostly sidelined in this funeral. I was told 18 months ago that he was the most hated man in Rome. Perhaps his day is over.

[Gamecock]

I kinda doubt any Calvinists were invited.

[Kolokotronis]

"It was a beautiful addition after the Latin Rite absolution, and plainly a fraternal gesture to the Eastern Churches."

That the whole Greek burial service was used is the wonderful thing for the Eastern Churches in communion with Rome. Singing the "Xristos Anesti" is actually part of that service, and all others, between Pascha and the Ascension.

[Kolokotronis]

"Not properly an Arabic accent, but rather a Coptic accent more reflective of their liturgical language and the way it beautifies their speaking of Arabic and flavours their speaking of Greek."

Well, see what comes of hanging out with Lebanese and Syrians? Now you Freepers will say, "Look at that poor old Balkan Bandit. He wouldn't know a Coptic accent from an Arabic one if it hit him in the ear!" :)

[Kolokotronis]

"It is my guess that it would be the responsibility and privilege of the senior-most hierarch within the deceased primate's local church to serve the funeral, but that this hierarch would likely invite a Patriarch, if one was present, to serve the funeral. I would also guess that the Patriarch in question would express thanks, but decline."

You may be right but I note that +Demetrios presided at the funeral of +Anthony of San Francisco rather than the senior priest of that diocese. Of course an Orthodox funeral service is different from a Roman one since as you know the funeral does not take place within a Divine Liturgy as it does in the Western Church. As far as I know, the senior cleric present always has the right to preside by his presvyia but you are also correct that that is often ceded to a more junior cleric.

[Cronos]

The rest, it seems, don't mind being treated as "junior partners."

Sheesh, get off your high-horse Kosta, by taking offense at grievances imagined, one does nothing but foment a wrong picture of the Orthodox in the Catholic minds. A Catholic mind would think "Oh, look, Eastern Orthodox Patriarchs come for the funeral. Look, they're placed along with the Catholic Church's High Clergy, this must mean something big." and when you say that this was somehow meant as an insult to them, the Catholic mind immediately thinks "Huh? We offered common courtesy and we seem to be getting reviled for this, why?" and, that's how stances get hardened on either side.

[Cronos]

Oh, my goodness. You mean to tel me that the Roman Catholics passed over the Orthodox in favor of muslims and pagans.

Get over it. The Church did no such thing to fellow Christians, in fact, fellow Leaders of the Apostolic Church. The Orthodox were placed with the rest of the Priests of the Church, they were not placed with the non-Christians. They were also not 'passed over' for anything that Muslimes were to do. Do you really think there was a Muslime funeral ceremony done? Stop trying to create imagined differences between the two halves of the Church, we have enough issues to work out without those from outside the Apostolic Church trying to forment trouble. It is part of the other's plan to try and cause dissent in the Church of God.

[Cronos]

note that there were no Protestants up there

There is a significant difference in the Catholic between Protestants and Orthodox -- Orthodox are believers in the true church. Yes, separated from us, but they ARE part of the Apostolic Church and deserve due respect.

[Cronos]

And I'm sure none of the patriarch's cared very much to be a part of it anyway.

On the contrary, I hope the Patrirach's card to be part of the funeral rites, but would/could not due to the reasons stated by Kolokotronis above.

[EDINVA]

It appeared to me that the Eastern Catholics were highly honored at the Pope's funeral service. Your interpretation seems, at best, petty. I would imagine the patriarchs saw it quite differently. The Russian not going could be more internal Russian politics. All events such as this have a protocol which was adhered to, and one has to wonder what you wanted/expected?

[muir_redwoods]

A woman who came to my wife's wake hit on me. Really. No $hit. My sister and my oldest daughter were there and wanted to take the creep out but decorum was preserved and reason prevailed.

It's a strange world.

[kosta50]

All events such as this have a protocol which was adhered to, and one has to wonder what you wanted/expected?

Protocol? By protocol the Ecumenical Patriarch (by the decision of the Seven Ecumenical Councils which the RCC still recognizes as valid), is second in honor only to the Pope. That was hardly evident.

It appeared to me that the Eastern Catholics were highly honored at the Pope's funeral service

Onviosuly, you don't know the difference between the "Eastern Catholics" and Eastern Orthodox. No one borhtered to make that distinction clear.

[Conservative til I die]

Still as petty as ever. Does it bother you that Eastern Catholics were allowed to do a rite, rather than the Eastern Orthodox, considering that the Eastern Catholics are like, Catholics and all, and JPII was like, you know, Catholic?

And when one of the Orthodox patriarchs dies, will our Popes and Cardinals be allowed to perform rites on him?

[Conservative til I die]

Onviosuly, you don't know the difference between the "Eastern Catholics" and Eastern Orthodox.

What's with the "" around Eastern Catholics? Am I sensing some sarcasm?

[EDINVA]

not only petty, but outright pathetic. *some* posters seem just so anxious to be offended they have to look for perceived slights. I am sure the Patriarchs of the other Rites are above this pettiness; their service was lovely.

[Siobhan]

an, I notice also that Piero Marini seems to have been mostly sidelined in this funeral. I was told 18 months ago that he was the most hated man in Rome. Perhaps his day is over.

He is the most hated man in Rome, and upon the death of Pope John Paul II he lost his job as did everyone in the Curia except for the Camerlengo (Cardinal Martinez Somalo) and Cardinal Stafford ... ugh.... We will see if the next Pope gives Piero Marini a job. That would be a very telling indicator.

[Siobhan]

"Look at that poor old Balkan Bandit. He wouldn't know a Coptic accent from an Arabic one if it hit him in the ear!" :)

You are a joy and a delight!