The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[malakhi]

How do you think Adam and Eves kids multiplied?

Presumably in the customary fashion. ;o)

[malakhi]

This appears to me to raise a considerable question for Trinitarians.

It was passages like that which made the Arian position such a formidable rival to Athanasian trinitarianism.

[Gamecock]

Hmmm, God lays down the law to his His Chosen People and you call that free will? God gives his rules to his chosen and only by the softening of our hearts by the Holy Spirit can we obey.

Why don't you tell me all about how free will is presented in Ephesians One.

[CindyDawg]

Not really. It's one verse. I put it in context with others where He talks about being God and it falls in place for me. What else did Jesus say?
Yesterday, a lot of verses were being thrown at me out of context and things got confusing. I was praying about it and I felt led to go to His word for answers. I did what I often do. I only read the words in red. My questions were answered.

[OLD REGGIE]

You don't think it happens? :')

Sure, but the entire world?

[OLD REGGIE]

They had to come from somewhere lol. Some people's roots just run a little deeper, that's all? How do you think Adam and Eves kids multiplied?

Would you believe me if I told you I don't accept the story as literally true?

[CindyDawg]

lol.

[CindyDawg]

Yeah but you are going to get me in trouble. I'm not supposed to be here today but what the heck... What are your thoughts about this?

[OLD REGGIE]

Yesterday, a lot of verses were being thrown at me out of context and things got confusing. I was praying about it and I felt led to go to His word for answers. I did what I often do. I only read the words in red. My questions were answered.

I agree with you. Surprised?

Now to throw a little cold water on it I have to say I believe the entire Trinitarian story is a result of taking Scripture out of context.

[RnMomof7]

Those do not say God has to be fair do they ?

The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness (1 Samuel 26:23)

This say God rewards those that ARE FAITHFUL, That does not say God must be fair.

.then hear thou in heaven, and act, and judge thy servants, condemning the guilty by bringing his conduct upon his own head, and vindicating the righteous by rewarding him according to his righteousness. (1 Kings 8:32)

That does not say God must be fair, this says he is just and merciful..not "fair"

O great and mighty God whose name is the LORD of hosts, great in counsel and mighty in deed; whose eyes are open to all the ways of men, rewarding every man according to his ways and according to the fruit of his doings (Jeremiah 32:18-19)

.Again this does not say God must be fair. It says that God is just and rewards men . The problem we have is there is none righteous no not one . This again speaks to HIS Faithfulness not fairness.

And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds... (1 Peter 1:17)

You may want to read the next verse

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;

Was God "fair" when he destroyed the inhabitance of the lands that he gave to Israel? Was god "fair" when He picked the jews to be the apple of His eye, and left the rest of the world to die in their idolatrous religions?

Exd 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

Deu 7:6 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.

Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye [were] the fewest of all people:

Deu 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt

[malakhi]

Hmmm, God lays down the law to his His Chosen People and you call that free will?

Sure. "Covenant" implies an agreement freely entered into by both parties. Once the covenant was accepted, then it was binding.

[OLD REGGIE]

Yeah but you are going to get me in trouble. I'm not supposed to be here today but what the heck... What are your thoughts about this?

I have absoloutely no idea. Some time ago I explained that though I was raised as a Christian I had "problems" with the Trinity. In my typically cowardly way I just decided to ignore the subject with the attitude "it makes no difference". It was only through my participation on this thread and much thought and discussion that I finally admitted to myself I don't accept the Trinity and I don't think it is necessary for one's salvation to do so.

As far as Adam & Eve and how the entire population of the world derived from that single source, I have decided "I don't know and I don't think it is important for me to dwell on it". (How's that for a non-answer?)

[malakhi]

Why don't you tell me all about how free will is presented in Ephesians One.

Since I don't recognize that as inspired scripture, Paul's opinion doesn't really matter to me.

[malakhi]

Those do not say God has to be fair do they ?

They don't say that God has to be fair; they say that God is fair.

Since you disagree with how I read those passages, perhaps you can define what you mean by "fair".

[Gamecock]

Well, so we are on the same sheet of music, why don't you tell me which scripture is inspired and I'll pose the same question.

[Gamecock]

"Covenant" implies an agreement freely entered into by both parties. Once the covenant was accepted, then it was binding.

LOL! Which would explain why when the Isrealites kept wanting out of the covenant God smacked them up side the head until they screamed we surrender.

Sounds like free will to me!

[CindyDawg]

Please tell me you aren't fixing to reject Jesus too :'( Which one of the 3 guys are you having problems with?

[malakhi]

Well, so we are on the same sheet of music, why don't you tell me which scripture is inspired and I'll pose the same question.

I'm a Jew. So anything from the Hebrew scriptures.

[malakhi]

LOL! Which would explain why when the Isrealites kept wanting out of the covenant God smacked them up side the head until they screamed we surrender.

Exactly. A covenant is a covenant. We accepted it, and we are expected to live up to our side of the deal.

Sounds like free will to me!

Good, then you agree! :o)

[Gamecock]

You obviously missed my gentle sarcasm