The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[malakhi]

Whatever you do, ... is exactly what God decided that you should do.

And the logical consequence of this is that, if you do evil, its because God decided that you should. Since free will is an illusion, even if a very complex one, this makes God responsible for evil.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Give it a rest Mack. Just because something doesn't get answered immediately doesn't mean we've cut and run for the hills. We have lives outside of FR that need to be lived just like you do.

I bet its hard to post at work, I know if I had employess that were posting on some internet chat board instead of working for the money I paid them to do the work I hired them for I'd be pretty upset and watching them to make sure it didn't happen.

JM, yes Adam was aware of his sinful condition. Romans 1 tells us that all of Mankind should have this awareness from the testimony God has given of Himself in the Creation.

However, where did Adam come to God and ask God to cover him in that passage? It's not there. There was no choice on Adam's part. In fact Adam kept trying to cover his sin his own way. God had to step in and provide the covering for Adam.

Yes, Adam recognized his sin, but recognition of sin does not equate to making a choice for Christ. God made the coverings and covered Adam and his wife on His own.

When you talk the TULIP the spin mode kicks in, you used to be against that, now you pull the rope on the top to start the spin every time your asked a straight forward question, what happened?

BigMack

[IMRight]

I think he tried that in the Bill Cosby version.

[IMRight]

Whoa.

I can't even think what that was INTENDED to convey before it went all wrong.

Do AOGers (is that pronounced like "auger"?) drink heavily while planning outreach events?

[SoothingDave]

She's 18. Goes to my church.

Have her log in and keep us company while you're away. :-)

SD

[CindyDawg]

God responsible for evil.

I think that is what bothers me about the whole concept. Does God know who will reject Him? Yes, if He wants to know. That's about as close as I can get to the "elect". Why would he choose some to save and create others designed for Hell. Eternal death for this one, life for the other? Could you not equate this with selective abortion?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

The calvin folks say God looks at the whole bunch and their all wicked and going to hell, and He says I'll just pick a few of them to worship me so it won't be a total loss and of course let them have a freewill will to do so, but its not really a freewill they just think it is, so what if I let the rest of them burn in hell, I made them, I'll do what ever I want with them. And BTW I'm also a JUST God.

Thats the god of the calvin folks.

BigMack

[ksen]

Why would he choose some to save...

I think the real question is why does He save ANY of us?

[ksen]

A serious question Mack.....Will we be free to reject God in Heaven?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You call that serious?

BigMack

[CindyDawg]

Well we both can't be on at the same time. Thinking about Macks posting at work post though. You know I can keep the thread open and lurk and keep right on working but posting takes way too much time. HMM, I'll think about this tomorrow though. I won't be on in the mornings much anymore. I'm going to start going to the stables in the morning . Boss agreed to me coming in at noon for now. He never wants to start doing anything til time for people to go home anyway. And yes I have a shower at work :')

[malakhi]

Why would he choose some to save and create others designed for Hell. Eternal death for this one, life for the other?

If God chooses, then we have no choice. There is no getting around this.

[CindyDawg]

I think John 3:16 answers that question.You remember that verse? He doesn't say He is fed up with all of us but that He will keep a few so all is not a wash. He talks about "the world"

[CindyDawg]

I think John 3:16 answers that question.You remember that verse? He doesn't say He is fed up with all of us but that He will keep a few so all is not a wash. He talks about "the world"

[CindyDawg]

I think John 3:16 answers that question.You remember that verse? He doesn't say He is fed up with all of us but that He will keep a few so all is not a wash. He talks about "the world"

[CindyDawg]

If you have accepted Christ you aren't free to make that choice even now. It kind of reminds me of the story of the bonds person that is free to leave but if he chooses to stay with his master he accepts the ring and it's for keeps. Heaven too late to be worrying about this IMO

[malakhi]

Will we be free to reject God in Heaven?

Are we in Heaven now?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

btw, more freepmail.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

If God chooses, then we have no choice. There is no getting around this.

No you dummy :) our choice comes after God makes his choice, you know the irrestiable grace thing...er wait umm...I know, it comes after we KNOW we are one of the "ELECT" we then can choose to run all over the internet full of pride telling everybody else they can go pound sand, that is until they come across someone that is confused by religion and then they can then proced to convince them that they too are one of the "ELECT" and BTW your wife and kids are grandfathered in so don't sweat it my reformed brother.

BigMack

[ksen]

The operative words in these verses are PROPHET! YHWH would raise a PROPHET amidst them, NOT a second-god, nor a god-man, or demi-god or sun-god.

Wonderful, we don't think Jesus was any of those things either.....well, other than the Prophet of course.

Yehoshua said that he was a prophet.

He is THE Prophet, not just another in a long line of prophets.

PROPHET. Yehoshua was a prophet and he told people what to do. To repent and keep the commandments, and according to the second portion that you posted, YHWH will require it of people that do not listen to what the prophet Yehoshua speaks in YHWH's name. (repent and keep the commandments)

Yehoshua did a lot more than tell people to repent and keep His (not the) commandments. BTW, that's an odd thing for a prophet to do isn't it? Claim that God's commandments are his own?

Yehoshua also told people to believe in Him....

• He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. - John 3:18

He also told men to honor Him just like people honor the Father, thus making Himself equal with the Father....

• For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son; that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent Him. - John 5:22-23

This prophet also accepts worship from men, is that something a true prophet from God would do?

• And he said, Lord, I believe, And he worshipped him. - John 9:38

Before I get too much further I must ask you just what, exactly, are your views regarding Jesus Christ? You say He is a prophet come to bring the world to repentance and to following God's commandments.

Do you believe He was resurrected from the dead?

Do you believe He came to pay for Man's sins through the shedding of His blood?