The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[ksen]

I still think praying the best action plan though.

Yes, praying is a good strategy. But you also need to be ready to confront the false teachings with Scripture. And sometimes you may have to be confrontative about it.

In the book of John the Lord showed us a number of different witnessing techniques. The one He showed us with Nicodemus was one of confrontation. Nicodemus knew the Scriptures and should have known what Jesus was talking about so Jesus used a confrontational style with him.

I would say that most of the people on this thread, and this forum in general, could be considered in the class of Nicodemus and should know better. So a more confrontative style is called for.

[IMRight]

Nicodemus knew the Scriptures and should have known what Jesus was talking about so Jesus used a confrontational style with him.

I would say that most of the people on this thread, and this forum in general, could be considered in the class of Nicodemus and should know better. So a more confrontative style is called for.

And the role of Jesus will be played today by Kevin...

[ksen]

And the role of Jesus will be played today by Kevin...

Ok, which parts of Jesus' life and ministry, besides the miracles, are we not supposed to use as our example?

I guess according to your view I shouldn't be kind to my enemies, etc. because then I would be trying to be Jesus.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

And in the interests of ego and pride, namely my own, I would like to congratulate myself on winning the NES Bracket challenge. Go me.

That's right. Good job. Congrats.

[IMRight]

Ok, which parts of Jesus' life and ministry, besides the miracles, are we not supposed to use as our example?

Which "part"? ANY part that is at the exclusion of the whole. I said before - the GOSPEL can be an offense to those who have not received it - WE don't have to be offensive.

I guess according to your view I shouldn't be kind to my enemies, etc. because then I would be trying to be Jesus.

No. In fact you SHOULD "be kind to your enemies", but the argument from the calinist side seemed to be the opposite.

I'm sorry that you are the COTM (Calvinist of the moment) because you are taking as an unfair target for their position when I have not had problems with you personally here.

BTW - He said we would do miracles too.

[ksen]

I said before - the GOSPEL can be an offense to those who have not received it - WE don't have to be offensive.

If you tell someone something that is offensive to them, but that they need to hear, you are going to appear offensive. How do you think the Jewish leadership felt about Peter, John, and Stephen? I bet they found them, personally and not just the message, offensive.

But were they really being offensive? I don't think they were. And yet if they were to appear on this board and preach they way they preached in Acts they wouldn't last a day before they were banned.

[pegleg]

Congrats to the808bass for winning the 2nd annual Neverending Pickers Tourney! Please get with Steven regarding your prize. I hear Hawaii is nice this time of year:-)

[ksen]

...but the argument from the calinist side seemed to be the opposite.

Then you are not understanding our arguments.

I'm sorry that you are the COTM (Calvinist of the moment) because you are taking as an unfair target for their position when I have not had problems with you personally here.

I've never had problems with you either, and I don't foresee having problems with you. But I am not sorry to be the "COTM" as you put it. Feel free to take your best shots, you won't offend me. But I will answer.

[ksen]

Please get with Steven regarding your prize.

Due to recent events I hear the grand prize is a nice, shiny, new shofar.

[pegleg]

Due to recent events I hear the grand prize is a nice, shiny, new shofar.

LOL! Yes, I read that Steven is converting to Judaism.

BTW Kevin, we missed you playing this year. Maybe next year you can take a shot a the bass man.

[ksen]

Yeah, I'll give it a go next year. I don't follow basketball, professional or college, so I'll be picking blind. But that's never stopped me before. ;^)

[IMRight]

The context I'm arguing against is yesterday's "drop in" by a few people to say "you haven't saved anybody an we have" to Mack and a couple others.

This is:

1) Technically incorrect (since neither of them save anybody)

2) Incorrect "in spirit" since Mack's efforts here are absolutely NOT without merit/value. And (IMO) "you'regoingtoHe!!andneedtogetsaved!" postings without any relationship are detrimental to the cause of Christ... not aiding it.

3) Scripturaly unsound. "So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." It also goes against the later half of 1Cor 12.

Their posts were offensive AND had nothing to do with "I can't help it, that's what the Bible says"

[CindyDawg]

Your 1979 post all nice and fuzzy but doesn't really answer my questions to help me understand Calvinism much.

Why would a loving God pick someone to be saved and another to go to hell with no action required on their part?

Why would someone that has no free will and is made to sin be punished for that sin? This doesn't sound like the God I worship.

You can be harsh and confrontational and isolate a child and make every decision for him and not allow him to grow or you can set rules and guide your child on how to live and make decisions and praise him for making wise choices and punish him for disobidence but either way you still are in control, so God (not man)in control not an issue for me.

Finally, will one of you please answer my repeated question? How many people do you know of who have accepted Christ due to witnessing on the other religion threads?

[al_c]

You can point fingers all day, mom, but it all comes down to Steven. It was his decision. His studies that led him to the road he is now on were not done on FR. He did that on his own.

[malakhi]

I forget the name of the guy that was on the calvinist threads but he had the FR calvinists pegged as the apostate loving bunch that they are....

Probably White Mountain....good company you keep.

I think Mack is thinking of "Jesse Shurun".

[malakhi]

What the iggy affair shows is that one man committed to converting someone ..is more successful that a dozen Christians that are half heartedly committed. Nice work malakhi !!

You are mistaken if you think I've been trying to convert anyone.

[malakhi]

He has made his own choices. our job is to witness, not beat someone into submission.

Exactly.

[snerkel]

Yeah you gods of calvinisim came by did a few hit and runs proclaimed that Gods chosen had been thru and all was right with the world, what really happened was every one stopped posting until you went away and then started posting again, you guys were really effective.

Obviously you thought we would be effective or you would not have come crying to us. Here's a suggestion, next time you get yourself buried in the corner and can't handle cults, don't call the Christians to come bail you out.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

[biblewonk]

I don't think it's wise to get into ugly debates with Christians on this doctrine. I know God is soverign and I will share my opinion as to why when asked but I have little hope, after years of trying, to get people to see it my way.

[JohnnyM]

1 Corinthians 1
10 Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you.
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." and "I of Calvin" and "I of Wesley" and "I of Luther" and "I of Baptist"
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.

I can't help but think of the letter to the Church at Sardis in Revelation. You have a name but you are dead. The Protestant church has many names, but we are dead because we do not focus on the name of Christ. We latch on to the names of men and quarrel amongst ourselves, diverting us from the call of Christ and the message of the Gospel.

JM