Posted on 07/15/2003 10:41:28 AM PDT by gcruse
I'm with David Horsley. If there is such a thing as a "gay agenda" I must be one of its supporters by default. I've never been "recruited" for this cause; never received any political material describing the agenda, the forces opposed to it, or how it will prevail in the law and the institutions of America; and I've never attended any meetings suggesting my heterosexual predilection is a target for gay subversion. But there are people out there with whom I disagree who tell me that gays of both genders are promoting this "agenda," and the demand that gays be given equal treatment under the law is apparently the first step on a path that will soon have me dating Bruce Willis.
I am not persuaded.
There's a lot of nonsense surrounding the phenomenon of homosexuality.
There's the idea that homosexuals "recruit" heterosexuals. This is absurd because you can't change someone else's sexual orientation. If you don't believe that, try changing your own. If you can't do it to yourself, what chance does anyone else have to do it to you? My sexual orientation is not up for grabs, and I defy anyone to sweet-talk me into sleeping with men.
There's the idea that gays corrupt the young. Some may, but as science repeatedly points out, most episodes of sexual abuse involving adults and children are perpetrated by heterosexuals. I suspect someday we will see a movement to outlaw heterosexuality because of all the perversions it spawns, but for now I would rather rest my weight on the idea that acts of sexual perversion are separate and distinct from sexual orientation. That way we can sweep up offenders of both persuasions.
And there's the idea that gays "choose" the "gay lifestyle" - whatever that is. As I've pointed out before on this page, if anyone can "choose" to be gay, so can you. And if you can choose to be gay, your right of choice should be protected as long as you meet the new criteria - consenting adults, privacy of the bedroom.
But the only element of "lifestyle" common to all gays is that they prefer sex with people of their own gender. Beyond that you can find gays who are committed and gays who sleep around, just like us. You can find gays who drink wine and gays who drink beer, just like us. You can find gays who are Republicans and gays who are Democrats, just like us.
The only "agenda" gays hold that I'm aware of is to correct mistreatment under the law, and since the gays doing this are American citizens who work, pay taxes and vote, there is no reason to deny them this much of what they want. Gays should be able to form lifelong committed relationships, participate as full partners in medical decisions of their mates, pass on property to survivors as easily as the rest of us can.
And, yes, they should be able to raise children as a family unit.
This is the idea that troubles some people to distraction - what about the children? Won't kids who grow up in a homosexual-parent family turn out gay? Well, do all children who grow up in heterosexual-parent families turn out straight? Of course not. I had three children by my first wife. Two are heterosexual, one is gay. So that argument doesn't hold water.
What is important to children in any family is the quality of the relationship between the parents and between parents and children. Two heterosexual parents can make the lives of their children a living hell. Two homosexual parents can make the lives of their children an example of trust, commitment, integrity, and love.
We all ought to seek and savor the second kind of relationship, not reject one of them out of hand because we don't like the pairing.
But giving gays some minimal protection under the law is an essential first step to understanding their relationships, because nothing distorts research like criminalizing the behavior to be studied.
Besides, when gays are denied fundamental protection under the law, we are stating to the whole world that justice in America depends on your choice of sleeping partners. This is an insupportable premise for public policy.
For those who are rabidly opposed to homosexuality, I say by all means stay heterosexual. Just don't expect to see your zeal elevated to legal prohibition. Gays can be good Americans, too, and discriminating against good Americans with the law has yet to prove itself a viable long-term strategy.
This is not true globally.
This is a big burden for the taxpayers, they go on SSI and must take thousands of dollars worth of drugs per month, they need constant medical care where they come down with many infectious diseases and affordable housing with visiting nursing services and ultimately hospital and hospice care.
Yes, this is a big problem. But we need to be fighting socialism and the nanny state -- not the freedom of consenting adults to do what they want.
Seriously, all this moralizing from religious conservatives is proving to be a huge distraction from creeping socialism, and a very convenient one from the socialists' point of view. All they need to do is get a court decision here or propose legislation there, to keep government out of the personal affairs of consenting adults, and the "conservatives" will reliably take off on a wild goose chase to "save the nation from immorality", while the socialists proceed unhindered to pass laws confiscating hard-working people's money for redistribution to irresponsible people who don't like the results of their free choices.
Absolutly right on both counts.
Thanks VL for helping society try to make a mockery of the sacred union of man and woman. Thanks for trying to define marriage as everything until it means nothing. If you're not from Vermont, you should be.
"Privacy of the bedroom" is just a cover statement. They don't seem to be as much for pushing for the acceptance of all behavior that happens at home between consenting adults. The drug warriors, prostitution fans, incestuous admirers, polygamy supporters, etc. have to fight their own battles. The sodomites are on their way to being a uniquely protected class of individual. Persons who consider a sex act a unique trait like race,sex, or religion.
Some companies already offer same sex live-in partner benefits (unmarried people who are of the same sex enjoy this benefit while unmarried people who are of complimentary sexes do not).
Some homosexuals have said that they do not fully support same sex marriage being legalized because they feel that there would be a backlash agains the promiscuous lifestyle of some homosexuals. After all, if marriage is suddenly a legal option why are some homosexuals still "slutting" it up? Yes there are heterosexuals who have unmarried relationships and live-in relationships. The homosexual community has expressed some reservation to "settling down" though.
The attack on the institution of marriage is just another attack on the institution of the nuclear family (2 parents of different sexes raising a child).
There was an artilce on FR a few days ago with the headline something about the average relationship (when there is an actual relationship) length between homosexuals is around 1.5 years. And there is overwhelming evidence that even when there is a "monogamous" relationship, especially between men, it almost always includes an understanding that there will be outside sex.
So this whole big deal about marriage is a political ploy for power, it has zilch to do with being married as it has traditionally been understood for thousands of years.
Yeah, it's so reasonable that ALL the homosexual men you met casually and through work would reveal every pecadillo and illegal act involving younger boys! Of course, I'm sure every single one of them totally revealed his entire sex life to you.
Just like God created incest, beastiality and killing sprees? These are human sins against nature and God condemns such actions but they are a choice. Being human, many take part in these sins because thats what humans do.. Ignoring Gods orders is foolish and dangerous. Blaming God for these sins is also foolish and dangerous.
You comments in blue Mr. Smith are true to the bone. I agree 100%.
This from a leftist wacko on my hometown forum website regarding Exodus :
Another one of your sicko organizations. What a pathetic group they are:
"Exodus attracted media attention in 1978 when two of its founders, Gary Cooper and Michael Busee, left the ministry after falling in love with each other. Together they went on the talk show circuit in the early 1990s to tell their story.
"Busee and Cooper repeatedly called ex-gay ministries a fraud that promote homophobia and self-hatred. They told stories of people who went through the Exodus program and had emotional breakdowns or committed suicide. After interacting with hundreds of people, Busee and Cooper said they hadn't met one person who successfully changed their sexual orientation from gay to straight.
Full article here:
http://www.publiceye.org/equality/x-gay/X-Gay-03.html
Check out SoulForce as well. They are targeting each denomination at their respective gatherings, including the Southern Baptists.
I am not gay , and I didn't say this . I wrote in my post that a leftist wacko in my hometown had posted this on a forum . Thanks for your reply .
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