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Homosexual Groups Admit ‘10%’ Figure Is Wrong
Traditional Values Coalition ^ | Friday, May 09 @ 15:27:45 CDT | Traditional Values Coalition

Posted on 05/12/2003 9:23:01 AM PDT by Remedy

Summary: In fighting to overturn a Texas law against homosexual sodomy, homosexual activists have quietly admitted that their claim that 10% of the population is homosexual is wrong.

In what will go down as one of the most underreported stories of the year, homosexual activists fighting against a sodomy law in Texas have admitted in a legal brief that 10% of the population is not homosexual.

The 10% claim has been used for more than 20 years to push the homosexual agenda—and to recruit public school children into the homosexual deathstyle.

The admission that the 10% figure is wrong appeared in an obscure footnote in a legal brief filed by a coalition of homosexual groups in the Lawrence v. Texas case now before the Supreme Court.

The coalition consisted of 31 groups including: Human Rights Campaign, National Gay & Lesbian Task Force, Parents, Families, & Friends of Lesbians and Gays, The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, and the People for the Way Foundation.

In a footnote on page 16 of this homosexual coalition’s legal brief, they admit that "2.8% percent of the male, and 1.4% of the female, population identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual."

Our thanks to the Family Research Council for pointing out this footnote and exposing the fact that homosexuals are finally telling the truth about their numbers. To read FRC’s analysis of this controversy, click here: Family Research Council: CultureFacts: Culture Facts - April 4, 2003

Read TVC’s Homosexual Urban Legend, published last year on this subject: Exposed: The Myth That "10% Are Homosexual".


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: child; children; deceit; deviant; father; gay; gaytrolldolls; homosexual; homosexualagenda; kane; marriage; mother; recruiting; same; samearguments; school; sex; soddomy; sodomites; steve; tvc
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To: Mr. K
Nature doesn't make mistakes as great as 1 out of 50 and survive????? What books have you been reading? Many species have 1% survival rate to maturity! 1 in 50 is a very very low abnormality, particularly an abnormality that doesn't affect the individual of that species in any other way other than procreation.

Wasn't that long ago fully 50-75% of children never reached their 4th birthday!



61 posted on 05/12/2003 10:12:26 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: All
Well, this is all very interesting (and it is interesting, I'm not kidding there), but as far as justifying making homosexuality illegal, it falls far short. I'm sure both sides in this debate have "stretched" the truth in some areas, (albeit probably not the same areas).

We can't legistlate morality. It's literally incongruous with the concept of individual liberty. It's just that simple. However, to make my point even clearer, I would ask that any reader of this post to ask him/herself the following question: If it's ok to legislate homosexuality because it's immoral, what about adultery? If it's a question of health risk, what about the diseases spread by adultery and other forms of extramarital/pre-marital sex? Should those (extramarital/premarital sex) be outlawed as well?

Clearly this becomes a case of reductio ad absurdum. To take the reasoning behind the Texas law of sodomy to its fullest, and most logical conclusion, we would have to push for the illegalization of every form of sex practiced in this country, except for sex between a man and a woman, of legal age, who are married and only engage in the "missionary position" (or other such sexual acts that wouldn't involve oral or anal intercourse). Then we would have to appoint a special "task force" for such an endeavor, and spend enormous resources over decades (probably) wiping out the "problem" of "un-approved sex", probably never to fully achieve our goal of complete eradication of same. (Kind of like the rediculous drug war of today).

Clearly, reductio ad absurdum. Does this mean we shouldn't fight to keep homosexual "education" (read "INDOCTRINATION") out of our public schools? Of course not. That's a separate area where people who are not of age (children) are basically being encouraged to not only engage in sex, but also to engage in a sexual act that's not "natural", and clearly are being lied about the statistics of homosexuals in the country anyway!

However, when it comes to the idea of legislating sexuality among consenting adults, this opens up too much of a slippery slope, imo. Should beastiality be legislated? Yes, because it's arguably animal cruelty, as an animal can't give consent. Should inscest be legislated (i.e., sex between direct relatives such as a mother and son or father and daughter)? Yes, as clearly the product of such a union would most likely be a deformed or handicapped child in some way.

Homosexuals, however, only hurt themselves, and any diseases they spread are spread just as fast as any heterosexual engaging in premarital or extramarital sex. Thus, I'd advise my fellow conservatives to let this one go, or be consistent and push for the legislation of every type of sex, including heterosexual sex.

62 posted on 05/12/2003 10:13:42 AM PDT by FourtySeven
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To: kegler4

But this link contains absolutely no proof that anybody's "recruiting" 6 year olds to become homosexual.
Crafting Bi/Homosexual Youth by Judith Reisman

Homosexuals target Boy Scouts

Report: Pedophilia more common among 'gays'

63 posted on 05/12/2003 10:14:03 AM PDT by Remedy
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: Remedy
In a footnote on page 16 of this homosexual coalition’s legal brief, they admit that "2.8% percent of the male, and 1.4% of the female, population identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Wait.
Shouldn't we wait until the poor sad sack to told the truth is contacted and shown the error of his ways by the other perverts?
Won't they simply claim that it was an honest mistake?

I think I'll wait.

65 posted on 05/12/2003 10:15:02 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
"So this argues that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice."

Is psychosis a "lifestyle choice"?

Data showing about a 50% correlation in gay twins separated at birth (on a social conservative site)

Data showing a similar correlation in psychotic twins separated at birth

66 posted on 05/12/2003 10:15:06 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: FourtySeven
 

Texas Physicians Resource Council, Christian Medical and Dental Association, Catholic Medical Association In fact, same-sex sodomy has resulted in the transformation of diseases previously transmitted only through fecally contamin-ated food and water into sexually caused diseases– primarily among those who practice same-sex sodomy.

Center for the Original Intent of the ConstitutionIt is a settled constitutional principle within our federal republic that states possess general police powers. Inherent within these powers lies the duty to regulate the "health, safety, and morals" of their members. Barnes v. Glen Theater, 501 U. S. 560, 569 (1991) (referencing public indecency statutes which were designed to protect morals and public order). States have used this police power to promote marriage and direct the sexual activities of their citizens into marriage by criminalizing a wide variety of nonmarital sex acts, such as polygamy, rape, fornication, adultery, prostitution and incest. While crimes such as rape and incest are not consensual, adultery, prostitution, polygamy and fornication are private acts between consenting adults that have been regulated throughout our nation's history. As we shall demonstrate, states have possessed and properly exercised the authority to regulate deviate sexual conduct including sodomy at all relevant times in our nation's history.

American Center for Law and Justice This Court should affirm the judgment rejecting petitioners' equal protection claim. This case has been litigated under the rational basis standard; hence, as this Court explained in Heller v. Doe, 509 U. S. 312, 319 (1993), it would be wholly improper and unfair to inject a new standard here. Moreover, because there is no fundamental right at issue and because the record does not even identify what supposed suspect or quasi-suspect class petitioners belong to, heightened scrutiny is in any event unjustified. Under rational scrutiny, the ban on same-sex sodomy clearly passes constitutional muster. There are at least three, independently adequate, rational bases for the statute. First, a ban on same-sex sodomy permissibly furthers public morality. Second, the extensively documented health risks of same-sex sodomy supply a strong public health rationale for the statute. Third, based upon the view of all nine Justices in Bowers, as well as this Court's other "privacy" decisions, a state could reasonably conclude that, to minimize the likelihood of constitutional attack and invalidity, a ban on sodomy needed to exclude heterosexual acts. Importantly, the distinction between heterosexual and homosexual unions is the hallmark of marriage law. To invalidate that distinction here would be tantamount to holding marriage unconstitutional.

II. PETITIONERS' SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS CHALLENGE FAILS.

As Justice Stevens wrote for a unanimous Court, As a general matter, the Court has always been reluctant to expand the concept of substantive due process because guideposts for responsible decisionmaking in this unchartered area are scarce and open-ended. . . . The doctrine of judicial self-restraint requires us to exercise the utmost care whenever we are asked to break new ground in this field. Collins, 503 U. S. at 125 (citation omitted).

Alabama, South Carolina, and Utah (State Attorneys General)

Presently, some fourteen States, including amici, have criminal statutes prohibiting either homosexual sodomy alone or all extramarital sodomy. Many States also discourage homosexual activity through policies regarding, for example, same-sex marriage, child custody, adoption, and foster parenting. And many States have laws that regulate other kinds of private consensual adult sexual activity, such as polygamy, incest, pedophilia, prostitution, and adultery.

Amici are concerned that, if this Court should adopt petitioners' expansive and undisciplined interpretation of the Constitution, many if not all of these laws will be invalidated. Petitioners' interpretation of the Constitution would limit the ability of the States to express and preserve the moral standards of their communities. Under the Constitution, the States should be free to legislate in such sensitive areas as family definition, child-rearing, and sexual conduct. Absent a mandate in the text or history of the Constitution, it is not for the federal courts to decide what is right and what is wrong for all 50 States in the Union. The people, not the courts, should decide such fundamental issues for themselves.

American Family Association

A. Guiding Citizens to Good Morals is a Cen-tral Purpose of the Law…. the Western legal tradition has long recognized that one of the primary purposes of the law is to steer the people to good morals.

Over 2300 years ago, Aristotle opined that "virtue must be the care of a state which is truly so called. . . ." ARISTOTLE, POLITICS Bk. 3, Pt. IX (Benjamin Jowett, trans. in 2 THE COMPLETE WORKS OF ARISTOTLE, Princeton, 1984) This concept of the purpose of government is central to the Western tradition: "It is, above all, the belief that law and politics are rightly concerned with the moral well-being of members of political communities that distinguishes the central [Western] tradition from its principal rivals." GEORGE, supra 20.

C. Any interest in personal autonomy does not extend so far as to invalidate a long-standing criminal prohibition. 1. Glucksberg recognized the limits of personal autonomy.

In Glucksberg, as here, the Court was confronted with private, consensual conduct between adults. Relying on this Court's decisions in Planned Parenthood v. Casey 19 , and Cruzan v. Director, Missouri Dept. of Health 20 , as do Petitioners here, the physicians in Glucksberg asserted a fundamental liberty interest in "personal autonomy" and "self-sovereignty." 21 The Court refused to transform the limited protections afforded such interests into an absolute and unlimited right: "That many of the rights and liberties protected by the Due Process Clause sound in personal autonomy does not warrant the sweeping conclusion that any and all important, intimate, and personal decisions are so protected." 521 U. S. at 727 (emphasis added).

The Court further held that the Washington statute easily met the low bar of the rational basis test. It noted, too, that "[ t] o hold for respondents, we would have to reverse centuries of legal doctrine and practice." Id. at 723. 22

2. Personal autonomy should not intrude on the broad discretion accorded the states to enact morals legislation. As a matter of sound policy, imposition of a limit on the reach of morals laws on the basis urged by Petitioners must be rejected. That there are limits to a state's police power is certain. But the discretion afforded the states in the exercise of that power to protect the health, safety and morals of its citizens is, and of necessity must be, exceed-ingly broad. While "the police power cannot be put forward as an excuse for oppressive and unjust legislation, it may be lawfully resorted to for the purpose of preserving the public health, safety or morals, or the abatement of public nuisances, and a large discretion 'is necessarily vested in the legislature to determine not only what the interests of the public require, but what measures are necessary for the protection of such interests. ' " Holden v. Hardy, 169 U. S. 366, 392, 18 S. Ct. 383, 42 L. Ed. 780 (1897) (quoting Lawton v. Steele, 152 U. S. 133, 136, 14 S. Ct. 499, 38 L. Ed. 385 (1894)); see also Barbier v. Connolly, 113 U. S. 27, 31, 5 S. Ct. 357, 28 L. Ed. 923 (1885) (" neither the [14th] amend-ment – broad and comprehensive as it is – nor any other amendment, was designed to interfere with the power of the State, sometimes termed its police power, to prescribe regulations to promote the health, peace, morals, educa-tion, and good order of the people, and to legislate so as to increase the industries of the State, develop its resources, and add to its wealth and prosperity").

IV. STRIKING THE STATUTE WOULD DESTROY THE ONGOING POLITICAL DEBATE ON HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS AND UNDERMINE THIS COURT'S OWN MORAL AUTHORITY.

Center for Arizona Policy Laumann's research also reveals that heterosexuals engage in anal sex even less than oral sex: "anal sex has not entered into the repertoire of regular sexual practices of most women and men in the United States." Laumann, supra, at 107. This study found that only one-quarter of men and one-fifth of women have experienced anal sex over a lifetime, and is far less frequent than that in any given year of life. Id. Heterosexuals were also 79% less likely to find anal intercourse as "very appealing" compared to vaginal intercourse. Laumann et al., supra, at 152-155, Table 4.2.

Because oral and anal sex are primary means of sexual activity between individuals of the same sex (APA Br. at 22-23), and such is not the case with heterosexual couples, it should be considered that the Texas law has reasonably and narrowly drawn their prohibition of "deviate sexual intercourse" to those couples where it is most likely to take place. The Texas law may also contemplate the higher rates of sexually transmitted diseases which are related to certain sexual behaviors, and seeks to prohibit behavior associated with a higher prevalence of sexually transmitted infections (not only HIV/ AIDS) and sexually associated infections and other illnesses. Laumann et al., supra, at 396.

It is well-documented that as the number of sexual partners rise, the likelihood of having a partner with a sexually transmitted infection also rises. Laumann et al., supra, at 403; see generally Hickson et al., supra. As has been noted, homosexuals have a much greater number of sexual partners, 23 as compared to heterosexuals, and engage in sexually riskier activity, 24 therefore, there are serious health considerations implicated in same-sex sexual activity which should be taken into account when a legislature proscribes certain sexual activities.

Center for Law and Justice International The Center for Law and Justice International (CLJI) is a project of Catholics United for Life, a lay Catholic 501 C (3) organization. The CLJI seeks to advance the Catholic perspective on human life and human sexuality issues through litigation, education, and similar activities in accordance with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

Finally, and most importantly, overruling Bowers v. Hardwick and holding that a right of intimate association including all sexual activities between consenting adults is a fundamental right will eventually wreak havoc on many of the Nation's laws governing marriage. All such laws, including laws against adultery, polygamy, polyandry, and incest become susceptible to the claim that they burden the right to intimate association and thus deserve strict scrutiny. As this Court well knows, very few laws survive strict scrutiny.

If society is in fact moving toward a national consensus about sexual morality, then the foundational principle of collective self-government requires this Court to permit the States to follow their chosen courses. Forcing the States' hands without any basis in Constitutional text or legal history will threaten the Court's legitimacy and undoubtedly cause the same national discord occasioned the last time this Court found a new substantive due process right that was untethered to Constitutional text or national history. See Roe v. Wade, 410 U. S. (1973).

For at least two decades now, this Court has been leery of "turning any fresh furrows in the 'treacherous field' of substantive due process." Troxel v. Granville, 539 U. S. 57, 76 (2000) (Souter, J., concurring). As Justice Powell explained in Moore v. City of East Cleveland, 431 U. S. 494 (1977):

[W] e "have always been reluctant to expand the concept of substantive due process because guideposts for responsible decisionmaking in this unchartered area are scarce and open-ended." By extending constitutional protection to an asserted right or liberty interest, we, to a great extent, place the matter outside the arena of public debate and legislative action. We must therefore "exercise the utmost care whenever we are asked to break new ground in this field," lest the liberty protected by the Due Process Clause be subtly transformed into the policy preferences of the members of this Court.

Substantive due process has at times been a treacherous field for this Court. There are risks when the judicial branch gives enhanced protection to certain substantive liberties without the guidance of the more specific provisions of the Bill of Rights. As the history of the Lochner era demonstrates, there is reason for concern lest the only limits to such judicial intervention become the predilections of those who happen at the time to be Members of this Court. That history counsels caution and restraint.

Concerned Women for America
D. Protecting Public Morals, Health and Safety Is A Rational, If Not Compelling Reason, To Prohibit "Deviate Sexual Intercourse"

The Court's decisions in Griswold establishing a fundamental privacy protecting marital intimacy and its holding in Eisenstadt v. Baird, 93 that there was no rational reason for the dissimilar treatment of married and unmarried persons who were similarly situated, should not be extended to same-sex sodomy. The fact that Texas does not criminalize opposite sex sodomy should not be construed as bias or animus toward homosexuals. It is entirely rational to presume that the Texas Legislature's decision to decriminalize opposite sex sodomy in 1973 was a response to this Court's rulings in Griswold and Eisenstadt, and to protect marital intimacy and opposite sex relationships that are likely to result in marriage. The Legislature's decision is certainly rational in light of Justice Stevens' dissent in Bowers: Paradoxical as it may seem, our prior cases thus establish that a State may not prohibit sodomy within 'the sacred precincts of marital bedrooms, ' Griswold, 381 U. S., at 485, or, indeed, between unmarried heterosexual adults. Eisenstadt, 405 U. S., at 453. In all events, it is perfectly clear that the State of Georgia may not totally prohibit the conduct proscribed by § 16-6-2 of the Georgia Criminal Code. 94

The fact that the prohibited conduct is called "deviate" should not be construed as evidence of legislative animus or bias toward homosexuals. Historically and currently, juries are instructed that in judging obscenity they may find that the prurient appeal requirement is met if the material is designed for and primarily disseminated to a clearly defined deviant sexual group including homosexual conduct. Justice Brennan writing for the Court in Mishkin v. New York 95 referred to material "depicting various deviant sexual practices, such as flagellation, fetishism, and lesbianism, …." 96 Whenever the state regulates conduct for the sake of public morality, it is a policy-based determination made by the legislature that the conduct in question addresses, thereby affecting the morality of the citizens of that state. It is perfectly valid for the state to make a legislative decision that reflects a deeper moral choice. Thus, the concern for the public morality is not limited to nonconsensual conduct or conduct that occurs in public. "Public morality" should be construed to mean the morality of the public, not merely morality in public. As noted above, unless the conduct is protected by some constitutional right, it may be validly proscribed by the state's police power.

Family Research Council & Focus on the Family

II. SEXUAL INTIMACIES WITHIN MARRIAGE ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED; NON- AND EXTRA-MARITAL SEXUAL ACTS ARE NOT AND MAY BE DISCOURAGED.

V. STRICT SCRUTINY IS NOT REQUIRED BE-CAUSE THE LAW NEITHER DISCRIMINATES AGAINST A SUSPECT CLASS NOR BURDENS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT.

Is constitutional scrutiny more rigorous than the "rational basis" test required in this case? It is, if the legislation discriminates against a suspect class, or if the law burdens a fundamental right.

No suspect class is involved. Neither homosexuality nor the inclination (whatever exactly it might be called) which leads one to violate the Texas statute is constitu-tionally suspect. The challenged law, in fact, disturbs no one for possessing any particular affection or sexual orientation: neither homosexuality nor any other affection or taste is the line drawn by the law. Those who commit acts forbidden by the law constitute the class of persons who are not married and can never be married – but who nevertheless seek sexual satisfaction with another by the proscribed means. A plausible argument for special – indeed, the highest – constitutional protection of this class of persons is hard to imagine. Poe, Griswold and many other cases falsify any such argument. 29

Liberty Counsel

A. States Have the Right to Promote the Institution of Heterosexual Marriage

Petitioners invite this Court to view the Texas sodomy statute in a vacuum, ignoring the right of states to promote the institution of heterosexual marriage and how the statute falls within that legislative preference.
[N] o legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the co-ordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony; the sure foundation of all that is stable and noble in our civilizations.

B. States Have the Right to Regulate Consensual Sexual Conduct

The law "is constantly based on notions of morality, and if all laws representing moral choices are to be invalidated under the Due Process Clause, the courts will be very busy indeed." Bowers, 478 U. S. at 196. While governments are "obliged to show equal respect to persons qua persons" they are not obliged to show equal respect "to all of the persons' acts and choices." Robert P. George, MAKING MEN MORAL 102 (1993); see also Dent, supra, at 586 (government may promote or discourage conduct because it believes that the conduct benefits or harms the individual, even if the individual does not agree). Prohibiting behavior deemed unacceptable or immoral is precisely what law does: it limits one's freedom to act in ways that cause harm to the individual or to society.

States are justified in enforcing a societal morality as a means of self-preservation because "social bonds constituted by shared moral beliefs are placed in peril when the law tolerates actions that are generally considered to be wicked." George, supra, at 51-52, 73; see also Barnes v. Glen Theatre, Inc., 501 U. S. 560, 575 (1991) (" all human societies have prohibited certain activities not because they harm others but because they are considered immoral"). "Without morality, the foundations of our liberty will crumble, because there will be no moral compass differentiating between right and wrong." Stephen Daniels, Intolerant Tolerance: The Weapon of Moral Relativism at 4 (available at www. ncfpc. org/ policypapers. html); see also George, supra, at 36-37 (" Perhaps every generation must learn for itself that 'private' immoralities have public consequences. . . . It is plain that moral decay has profoundly damaged the morally valuable institutions of marriage and the family, and has, indeed, largely undercut the understandings of the human person, marriage, and the family"). 6

III. DEREGULATING HUMAN SEXUAL RELATIONS WILL ERODE THE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE

B. Current Strategies to Redefine Sexuality and Marriage

Pro Family Law Center

The core purpose of the Equal Protection Clause "is to prevent the States from purposefully discriminating between individuals on the basis of race." Shaw v. Reno, 509 U. S. 630, 642, 113 S. Ct. 2816 (1993). It was not intended "to interfere with the power of the state . . . to prescribe regulations to promote the health, peace, morals, education, and good order of the people." Barbier v. Connolly, 113 U. S. 27, 3, 5 S. Ct. 357 (1884). In fact, it has been recognized that a State can rarely legislate without discriminating against one group or another. Sullivan v. U. I. L., 616 S. W. 2d 170, 172 (Tex. 1981). By definition, the prohibition of one form of conduct over another results in discrimination against those who may or may not participate in the conduct so legislated.

The Court has at no time recognized homosexuals or other participants in sexually-defined conduct as protected classes for Equal Protection purposes. In Board of Education of Oklahoma City v. National Gay Task Force, 729 F. 2d 1270, 1273, aff'd. 470 U. S. 903 (1985), the court affirmed the ruling of the 10th Circuit Court on this point, saying "We cannot find that a classification based upon the choice of sexual partners is suspect." It has also addressed the issue in the negative by denying review of lower decisions finding no such protection, see, Rowland v. Mad River Local School District, 730 F. 2d 444 (6th Cir. 1984), rehearing denied 470 U. S. 1009 (1985). A denial of review is no less appropriate in this case. There is no confusion in the laws as suggested by Petitioners. (Petitioners' Brief at p. 9).

II. HOMOSEXUALS ARE NOT A DISADVANT-AGED CLASS FOR PURPOSES OF EQUAL PROTECTION ANALYSIS

Petitioners argue that many lesbians, gays, and bisexuals have suffered longstanding social and economic discrimin-ation. These groups of persons are portrayed as dis-advantaged groups. This is misleading and contrary to established law.

III. REGULATING SAME-SEX AND OPPOSITE-SEX CONDUCT DIFFERENTLY IS PERMIS-SIBLE DUE TO GREATER PUBLIC HEALTH RISK OF SAME-SEX CONDUCT

Petitioners assert that "As a matter of equal protection, bare condemnation of one group of people— whether termed a moral judgment, a value judgment, or simple dislike— cannot sustain a classification like the Homosexual Conduct Law under any level of scrutiny." [Petitioners' Brief at p. 9]. This is a strawman argument.

IV. RECENT SOCIAL TRENDS ARE NOT A SUFFICIENT BASIS FOR OVERRULING BOWERS V. HARDWICK

Legislators, State of Texas

INTEREST OF AMICI CURIAE 1 Amici are Texas Senators and Representatives who represent the people of Texas. Amici believe this case is about the right of the people and their duly elected repre-sentatives to determine State policy regarding marriage, the family and sexual conduct outside of marriage. The variety of State laws and policies on this contentious issue, and the changing nature of these laws within the States is a sign of the health of our democratic republic.

Petitioners ask the Court to take this issue out of the public debate and discussion and determine for all States a deeply controversial public policy issue found nowhere in the Constitution. Amici believe this would be a serious mistake and would have implications far broader than the statute in this case. Because of Amici's more complete understanding of the Texas laws and legislative history and Amici's understanding of additional State interests to support the challenged law, Amici believe their brief will be of assistance to the Court.

A. The record and law do not support a right of privacy claim.

2. Section 21.06 is part of a myriad of state laws promoting marriage and discourag-ing sexual activity outside of it. In evaluating whether § 21.06 is rational, the Court should consider that the provision is one part of a larger network of laws designed to further the legitimate State interest of promoting traditional marriage of one man and one woman.

The laws regarding marriage which provide both when the sexual powers may be used and the le-gal

and societal context in which children are born and brought up, as well as laws forbidding adultery, fornication and homosexual practices which express the negative of the proposition, confining sexuality to lawful marriage, form a pattern so deeply pressed into the substance of our social life that any Constitutional doctrine in this area must build upon that basis.

III. JUDICIAL INTERVENTION INTO CONTESTED POLITICAL QUESTIONS DISRUPTS THE PRO-PER POLITICAL STRUCTURE AND HARMS THE NATION.

The Constitution embodies a delicately balanced power structure, both horizontally and vertically. Horizon-tally, the separation of powers confers on each branch the means "to resist encroachments of the others." THE FED-ERALIST NO. 51, at 349 (J. Madison) (J. Cooke ed., 1961). Vertically, principles of federalism require special atten-tion when the Court is put in the position of piercing the silence of the record with its own "findings of fact," espe-cially when those "facts" can be based only on the bare assertions of petitioners and their amici without support in the record. A factual record, missing in this case, is essential.

Petitioners rely heavily on the fact that many States have repealed their sodomy and fornication laws. See Petitioners' Brief at 24, Lawrence (No. 02-102). According to petitioners, the Texas legislature is out of step with the legislatures of other States and must be forced by this Court to bend to the will of the majority of States. This is akin to asking the Court to control the conduct of one State at the behest of another. See New York v. New Jersey, 256 U. S. 296 (1921) (the Court at least required clear and convincing evidence before exercising its power to control the conduct of one State at the behest of another in an effort to promote federalism); Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U. S. 579, 594 (1952) (Frankfurter, J., concurring) (" The Framers, however, did not make the judiciary the overseer of our government").

67 posted on 05/12/2003 10:16:18 AM PDT by Remedy
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To: Remedy
Thanks for the links!
68 posted on 05/12/2003 10:16:36 AM PDT by Paradox
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To: Remedy
POST #56

Once again you've merely posted a link that shows absolutely NOTHING about homosexuals recruiting grade school kids to become homosexual, which was the point I was pooh-poohing, so to speak. Please show me the stats that show the rates of homosexuality rising as a result of this successful "recuriting" program.

Oops, I forgot, the homosexual themselves just said the numbers have gone waaaaaay down. Not much of a recruiting program is it?
69 posted on 05/12/2003 10:16:44 AM PDT by kegler4
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To: sparky samson
then there is bad choice, ugly choice. what man (in his right mind) would choose THAT over a front mount, gods choice 690 package, complete with autolube, softness, and personality let alone reciprocating action?

690 package?
70 posted on 05/12/2003 10:17:59 AM PDT by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus, Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Remedy
Something else to consider. IF homosexuality is hard-wired in some people through some sort of genetic mechanism, and IF the homosexual population is 2.8%, then this will have been true (for the most part) all through history.

On the other hand, if homsexuality is based (even in part) on active lifestyle choice, or on received childhood trauma, or a particular parenting style (absent father, etc) then the 2.8% that we see today in America comes from:

genetics
trauma
decline in parenting
A culture which actively praises and glamorizes homsexual lifestyles
An educational establishment which actively encourages sexual experimentation

Given all of these factors rolled together, one must at least consider the possibility that the percentage of homosexuals in a society might be reduced to (let's say) 0.01%

71 posted on 05/12/2003 10:18:04 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: FourtySeven
"We can't legistlate morality."

Even though I'm against anti-sodomy laws, I don't like that phrase. All laws are an attempt to "legislate morality".

72 posted on 05/12/2003 10:18:24 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: FourtySeven
"To take the reasoning behind the Texas law of sodomy to its fullest, and most logical conclusion, we would have to push for the illegalization of every form of sex practiced in this country, except for sex between a man and a woman, of legal age, who are married and only engage in the "missionary position" (or other such sexual acts that wouldn't involve oral or anal intercourse)."

Unfortunately, this is very close to what the law actually is in Virginia. Amazingly enough, there are people on this forum who think it's perfectly OK for the police to break down my door and arrest my wife and I for having oral sex.
73 posted on 05/12/2003 10:21:28 AM PDT by kegler4
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To: Alberta's Child; All
the nature number is misleading. Homosexuality does not occur under normal circumstances in nature. Where there is an excess of one gender, then the animals might exhibit same sex mating. HOWEVER, once a member of the opposite geneder becomes available then the mating goes back to normal hetero sexual behavior.

There are species of fish which travel in groups with one male and a harem of females. If the male dies, the most dominant female physically transforms into a male fish.

In captivity, parakettes which are kept as pairs in cages always adopt a male and female role situation.

The "occurs in nature" is a false argument is not to be allowed to stand.
74 posted on 05/12/2003 10:22:13 AM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: ClearCase_guy
Until recently many gays lived closeted lives, denied themselves and otherwise self-regulated their behavior. Many probably kept up appearences.
They were always around, I imagine, just not visible.
75 posted on 05/12/2003 10:22:14 AM PDT by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus, Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: kegler4
Rem is a homphobe. Occaissionally his post are worthwhile, like this one.

Gays aren't being recruited. But the lifestyle is being made to seem more acceptable. Normalizing it gives them the ability to overcome the biggest hurdle- peoples general disgust. I agree with him on that.
77 posted on 05/12/2003 10:25:59 AM PDT by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus, Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Publius6961
see post #76 LOL
78 posted on 05/12/2003 10:26:19 AM PDT by Remedy
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To: ffusco
You are a factophobe - fear of facts.
79 posted on 05/12/2003 10:27:20 AM PDT by Remedy
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To: Remedy
Pedophilia is reprehensible and absolutely wrong no matter who does it but it is not recruiting. Just for the record, I stand 100 percent aganis pedophilia.

The article headlined "Homosexuals target Boy Scouts" does not refer to homosexuals "recruiting" Boy Scouts; it refers to them demonstrating against the Boy Scouts' policy. If you insist on posting links instead of actually speaking for yourself, please post links that mean something.
80 posted on 05/12/2003 10:27:29 AM PDT by kegler4
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