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Extension of Objectivism discussion regarding the soul
Various | Various | Various

Posted on 05/08/2003 9:44:29 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl

On several of the various threads on the general forum which concern Objectivism, which evidently excludes God in definition of objective moral truth, the discussion has turned to the concept of the soul and more specifically, the words used in Scripture to describe the soul and how it has been understood by Jews who first received the Word and studied it for so many centuries.

I promised unspun that I would try to collect information on the various aspects and present it for Freeper discussion. Following is the first draft of that effort with a very rough organization, links and excerpts. Please click on the links for more detail as these articles are “treasure troves” of insight to the subject.

One other point, although this inquiry is directly related to the Objectivism threads and probably ought to be posted on-thread --- the size is prohibitive and thus a new thread is necessary. The result is a thread that is clearly “religious” in terms of forums, but an extension of a prior “general forum” debate. So although I am posting this to the general forum, I would fully understand the moderator choosing to move it to religion forum.

Definitions, putting it in perspective:

How did Spirituality Evolve? - from Evolution by Prof. Salomon Kapach

One difficult question which evolutionists will have to face is the question of spirituality. How will they explain the vital force of the spirit, the psyche, free will, and the soul? What adaptation could cause one's spirit to evolve? At what evolutionary stage does a soul mingle with flesh and blood? How is "mind over matter" achieved?

These questions and others have forced evolutionists to deceive themselves, contending that souls do not exist. However, since the declaration that souls don't exist (or basically that anything non- observable is non-existent) is an illogical claim (and at the very least an unsubstantiated one) some scientists who believe in the theory of evolution have taken recourse in various outlandish, even humorous, assertions.

One historic experiment endeavored to scientifically test and prove or disprove the existence of the soul. In the conclusions of the renowned zoologist who conducted the experiment, the following observation appeared: "I have disected thousands of corpses, but never once found a soul." No doubt, even a thousand vivisections would not have proven any more useful in finding a soul…

Whatever various claims may have been made by individuals to attempt to fill the void, the simple fact remains that science does not begin to pretend to have concrete answers to the many mysteries of spirituality vs. matter, regardless of the prejudices of more than a few scientists on the issue.

On the other hand, one should note that Judaism does address the issues. Midrashic and Kabbalistic sources consider the nefesh, ruach, and neshama (psyche, spirit, and soul) to be three separate entities which, although linked one to another and sharing a common origin, are nonetheless distinct one from the other. Once we cease to view the spirit and the soul as evolutionary spin-offs of the brain, and realize that they exist separately, many questions are solved.

Generally, we expect the working assumptions of scientists to be those which solve the most riddles. But it would seem now that the riddle which needs most to be solved is why so many scientists and thinkers, contrary to that rule of thumb, have adopted a working assumption which does not solve any riddles in this most critical of all areas of research, and quite the contrary, turns clarity into mystery, and significance into void

Afterlife by Ilil Arbel, Ph.D.

A human being on earth unites two parts -- a body and a soul. Each part is extremely complex in structure and consists of multiple components. While the body's structure is reasonably well understood, the structure of the soul is a mystery many tried to analyze. One Talmudic opinion divides it into three major segments:

Nefesh: the lower, animal part, related to the instincts and to the reactions of the body.

Ruach: the spirit, or the middle soul, linked to the understanding of morality and the ability to differentiate between good and evil.

Neshama: the higher soul, linked to the intellect, and separating humanity from all other life forms. It allows the person to be aware of God, and to participate in the afterlife.

According to the Zohar, which leans toward a mystical view of the universe, two additional soul parts may be developed by very few, select individuals who have the capacity of sublime levels of intuitive cognition:

Chayyah -- the part of the soul that is aware of the divine life force.

Yehidah -- the highest part of the soul, capable of achieving full union with God.

When the body dies, the soul components come apart, and each segment follows a separate road. The lower parts must undergo purification; the higher parts aim to join with God. Nefesh remains with the body for about twelve months, guarding the grave and occasionally roaming the earth for the purpose of learning. Ruach goes to Gehinnom (Purgatory), to purge itself from the sins the person committed in life, and prepare for the future life of the soul. Neshama goes to the lower Gan Eden (Paradise), Chayyah and Yehida return to Upper Gan Eden.

The Order of Realization by: David S. Devor

It can be said that any essence or entity (including a soul) consists of the substance of which it is made together with the "light" or "spirit" with which that substance is imbued and which sustains that entity's existence. It is this light or spirit, for instance, that distinguishes between a living person and a corpse. A corpse, on the other hand, has its own existence and, depending on the level of its decay, has its own quality of light. This is similarly true of the dust to which it will eventually be reduced.

Besides its technical meaning in the hierarchy of the five levels, "soul" is also the generic term for the "inner part" or "light" or "heart" or "center of gravity" of any entity. This usage is particularly appropriate since the technical term "soul" (Neshama) is the middle one or the "heart" of the hierarchy we'll now examine.

There are many types of nomenclature for the five levels or aspects of "soul" depending on the context but the main one is:

5. Yechida (unity/individuality)*
4. Chaya (eternal life)*
3. Neshama (soul)
2. Ruach (spirit)
1. Nefesh (animus)*
'Roots' Jewish Style

The human soul, or Neshama, much like the human body, is a complex entity that is subdivided into various parts. The highest part, the origin of the entire entity, is referred to by the name of the whole and is called Neshama. This part of the soul is described in Jewish tradition as being a part of God Himself. It is from this contact point of the Neshama with God that we originate spiritually, and it is through this part of the human soul that we can connect ourselves back to God. As God is a metaphysical being who can only be accessed through the realm of thoughts and ideas, the Neshama connects us back to Him by generating the thoughts and perceptions that we human beings require to be able to understand God. The vessel that traps the Divine light generated by the connection of the Neshama to God is the human mind.

The next part of the Neshama is referred to as the Ruach, or the human spirit. Our perception of the purpose of life and the basic elements of our characters are generated by this part of our souls. The Ruach takes the ideas produced in the mind by the contact of the Neshama with Divinity and applies them to formulate the conceptual structure on which we construct our lives and shapes the character of our interaction with the outside world. The vessel that receives the Divine light generated by the Ruach is the human heart.

The lowest part of the human soul is called the Nefesh. The Nefesh is the only part of the soul that is actually contained in our bodies. The Nefesh is the life force, the energy and joy of life that course through us. The vessel that traps the Divine light of the Nefesh which is provided by the contact of the Ruach with the Neshama is the blood that circulates through our bodies and generates the life force required by our limbs. The focus of its power is in the liver, the body's laboratory for processing blood.

Through the Torah one Word at a time

Kabbalistically- the soul is described as 'comprising' five levels of consciousness-experience.

The second one is referred to as RUACH. The levels are:

Nefesh-connected with physicality.,' that which animates existence in terms of life force, it acts as the source of human's capacity to think, to imagine, to dream, to contemplate." Corresponds to Olam HaAssiya-World of Doing.

RUACH-"above the primal soul, there exists in every human being, a divine soul. This is the first spark of consciousness beyond that of the zoological species, beyond even the consciousness of higher or more developed animal, and is directly connected to divine essence...It exists in each and every individual being, hidden and veiled as a spark of a higher perception, of a superior aspiration, and touches the higher level, which is Spirit." (Steinsaltz, 13 Petalled Rose , p. 57)

Corresponds to Olam HaYetzira: World of Formation Neshama: (breath, soul) -"higher awareness, defining quality of human consciousness. Zohar-"The nefesh and the ruach intertwine together, while the neshama resides in a person's character. This is an abode which cannot be discovered or located. Should a person strive toward purity in life, he or she is aided by a holy neshama. But should the person not strive for righteousness and purity of life, this person is animated only by two grades: nefesh and ruach." (Zohar:83b, quoted in God is a Verb, David Cooper. p.98)

Corresponds to Olam HaBriya: Word of Creation Chaya:(living essence)-"we gain awareness of this level only when we enter altered states. In those rare moments when we experience oceanic unity and a bright light of pure oneness, we are tapping into chaya consciousness" Cooper, p. 99)

Corresponds with Olam HaAtzilut:World of Emanation Yechida:(unity)"center point of the soul and it disapppears into the infinitude of creation...the aspect of the soul that is hardwired directly into the essence of the Divine. It is not 'with' us, but we are never apart from it...where duality dissolves"(Cooper, p.99) One 'goal' of spiritual practice is to experience the fullness of our being. As we grow spiritually we learn to integrate more of and open more to our "Divine' self. Climbing the ladder of our soul as it were.

Exploring Theological Myths - Different ways of looking at traditional beliefs.

Rabbi Jeremy Rosen – Do we have Souls?

'They called the soul by five names. Nefesh, Ruach, Neshama, Yechida, Chaya. Nefesh is blood... Ruach is the spirit that rises and descends...Neshama is the personality of a person... Chaya, even if all the limbs are dead, it still survives in the body... Yechida, all limbs are in pairs but this one it remains unique.' ...

In the Torah we will see several different words used to describe soul or spirit. The rabbis added even more words. And yet the assumptions that have been handed down can be and in practice are challenged and varied throughout both the Bible and the Talmud.

There are three main words used in the Torah for what we call 'soul'. The first is 'ruach', spirit, which appears initially as another word to describe the presence of God 'And the spirit of YHVH was hovering over the deep'. Some commentators suggest that God caused a wind to blow, like the one that divided the Red Sea for the Israelites. But most take this to mean the Shechina, the presence of God. Since God cannot be confined to any place or said to be in any one place, the rabbis devised a way of talking about the presence of God without it implying the totality of His Being. This is the Shechina, the presence, literally it means ' The Dwelling' or 'Where She is ', the place where God has chosen to have an impact. It does not have an independent reality or function in the way that ' The Holy Spirit' is often thought of. Later on, when talking about the flood, the Torah says that God will destroy ' All flesh that has the spirit of life ' using the same word, 'ruach' . So the word ruach, is applied both to God and to all living creatures as though it is a common link. There is an altogether different use of 'ruach' to describe a human passion . Firstly, when Jacob hears that his son Joseph is alive the Torah says that ' His heart ' missed a beat ' or fainted because he did not believe them ' but then when he is reassured ' his soul ( ruach) comes alive again.' There 'ruach' means his spirit as an aspect of his personality, state of mind. When describing the jealous husband who suspects his wife of infidelity the Torah says that a ' spirit of jealousy overcomes him' and the term used for this feeling is ' ruach ' . This only underlines the ambiguity of the word.

The second word for 'soul' is ' nefesh', as in ' 'And YHVH said Let the earth produce all kinds of living souls, animals, reptiles and beasts, and it was so ' . And when forbidding the Israelites to drink blood, the Torah says ' For the life of a person ( nefesh ) is in the blood ' . Nefesh is the word used almost interchangeably with 'adam' , a person, to describe a human who comes to bring a sacrifice in the book of Leviticus . Significantly, when the Torah institutes the law of fasting on Yom Kippur, the term it uses is ' Afflicting your souls' using the word nefesh . When the affliction referred to could simply be fasting, a physical act, in this context it is clearly meant to have penitentiary and therefore spiritual connotations as well.So this is a clear indication of the dual role of 'nefesh'. Throughout the Torah, the words 'nefesh' and 'ruach' seem to be used in similar situations with a heavily spiritual content, nevertheless, both are applied to ' All living beings', animal as well as human.

The third word for 'soul' and the one that in the Torah ( but not in rabbinic literature ) is only used of humans, is the word ' neshama'. 'And YHVH Elohim said formed man from the dust of the ground and He breathed into his nostrils the breath ( soul ) of life.' But this breath of life does not mean that it is automatically 'good'. And so later on in the Torah, when talking about Cannanite tribes that have to be destroyed because of their corruption and the threat they present to the newcomers, the word 'neshama' is used simply to mean all living humans. 'Do not let any breathing being ( neshama ) live.'

The Torah also uses the words ' neshama' and 'ruach' together describing the destruction of life by the flood, ' Everything that had the breath of the spirit of life ( nishmat ruach ) in its nostrils that was on dry land, died ' . So the distinction between the way the two words are used is blurred and ambiguous as to whether it applies to all life or only human life...

Symbolisms:

Five Levels of the Soul -- Inverted Seal - The Jewish Home

The five levels of the soul are called nefesh, ruach, neshama, chaya, yechida. The yechida reflects itself in the nefesh. This is revealed in the relation between Mashiach and King David. Each of the five levels of the soul correspond to a general soul root. The Arizal explains that the general soul root of the nefesh in all of Am Yisrael is King David. The ruach is the prophet, Elijah. The neshama, which is the mind, mochin d'Imma, is Moses, as stated in the Gemorah that Moses merited binah. The chaya corresponds to the ideal and primordial, blissful state of Adam and Eve before the sin. Had Adam stood that trial successfully, he would have risen to the level of yechida. Since he failed the trial he fell from all the levels of Olam ha'Atzilut. The highest level, yechida, is that of Mashiach, may he become revealed speedily in our days.

Nefesh - King David
Ruach – Elijah
Neshama – Moses
Chaya - Adam and Eve
Yechida – Mashiach

Parshas HaShavua

Man must relate to three aspects of life - his G-d, his world, and his very self.

These three dimensions are reflected in the three different parts of his soul - Nefesh, Ruach, Neshama. The Nefesh is known as 'Shituffa D'Guffa' - a partner of the body, the forces that man utilizes in his relationship to the world around him. The Neshama is the most exalted element of his being, and it remains eternally in heaven, relating to the G-d of creation. The Ruach is that part of man known as 'I' - man as he is meant to be.

These three elements are meant to be perfected, and with them the world arrives at its intended destination. It is only by refining these three aspects of his character that man becomes an appropriate vehicle to express the word of G-d.

This is the perfect 'Asher' - the world connected to G-d, approved and assured by heaven, and guaranteed to fulfill its mandate of destiny.

This concept finds expression in two seemingly disparate ideas - the prayer of 'VaYechulu' recited every Friday evening, and the Parsha of Parah Adumah, the purification from sin, death, and defilement.

Parshas Emor – Candles

Physical desires are not as physical as we think. Obviously, they are not an integral part of the body as an arm or a leg, as we see that after the spirit departs the body no longer craves food. Desire, in fact, is an expression of the life force the Creator implanted within our bodies, the Nefesh, that craves sustenance and pleasure. Even its gratification is not from the physical world itself; by eating we seperate the spiritual elements in the food from their physical shells: spirit touches spirit and dust returns to dust.

A higher part of our being is the spirit, the Ruach, which is the district of the emotions, where love, hate, anger, accomplishment and other sentiments all dwell side by side. Like a candle the Nefesh and the Ruach constantly fluctuate, craving, being depressed, sometimes both, and most often - all of them and then some. The initials of Nefesh and Ruach together even spell the word Ner, a candle.

In the Tabernacle, right outside the innermost chamber, there were candles constantly. In the morning they were extinguished and prepared for the evening when they would be lit till the next morning. Although candles constantly fluctuate, by placing them perpetually adjacent to the Holy of Holies, the Neshama of the Sanctuary, they acquired a certain degree of permanence. Miraculously the six side candles, which represented the Ruach, all faced the middle candle which represented the Nefesh.

Indeed, so essential is the Nefesh that right next to the candelabra was the table on which the Show-bread were placed. Unlike regular bread which is limited by the constraints of time and space, these loaves stayed piping fresh all week long. Although many Kohanim shared them, they all became full after eating a mere morsel, because the little bit of physicality in them was packed with satiation. It was not a physical satiation. It was the Nefesh receiving sustenance from the holy Name Lechem, which amounts to the numerical equivalent of three different punctuations of the Tetragrammaton, and is an expression of Hashem's Simple Will to Give.

Although we no longer have those holy loaves, their spiritual source still exists, and anyone who eats regular bread with the intention with which the Kohanim ate the Show-bread can tap into that holy Source of sustenance. When we light Shabbos candles and watch them flicker, we can watch our spirits flicker and dance to that Holy Light.

A more detailed look at the soul and sin:

The Soul - Part Four - To Catch a Thief

Let us selectively extract the information we learned in previous articles to orient ourselves properly towards the present discussion. The soul is made up of Naran, an acronym for Nefesh, Ruach and Neshama. Its source is in Azilut, where it is called Knesset Yisroel, which is also the Shechina, a name for the Divine Presence, the reason why the soul is called a part of God. (Responsa, Chavot Yair,210) Each of these soul parts is independently self-conscious and is subdivided into ten constituent sub-parts joined together according to the pattern of the Ten Sefirot from Keter to Malchut (see Soul #3 hyperlink). Each represents the human being in one of the four levels of reality; the human being of Azilut is called Knesset Yisroel; of Briah he is called Neshama; of Yezira he is called Ruach; and of Assiyah he is called Nefesh.

The most efficient way to tackle our present topic is to state a set of conclusions concerning reality constructed on these axioms, and only then explain how we fit into this reality as spiritual beings. Without a glimpse of the overall picture, even though at this early stage in our understanding of Kabbalah it can only be poorly understood, it will be difficult to unravel the tapestry of knowledge into individual threads.

Beginning at the conclusion

1. Nine of the ten Sefirot of the lowest part of the soul called Nefesh are detachable from their attachment to the higher part of the soul called Ruach by a process referred to in the Torah as Karet, excision.

2. There are different degrees of Karet. The most severe form has the effect of detaching nine Sefirot of the Nefesh from the Ruach, starting with Chachma and ending with Malchut, while the mildest form of Karet will detach only the bottommost level of the Nefesh, the Malchut of the Nefesh, leaving the remainder of the Sefirot of the Nefesh attached to the Ruach.

3. The levels of the Nefesh that are so detached are trapped by the forces known as Klipot who draw their life force from detached Nefoshot.

4. The highest portion of the Nefesh, the Keter of the Nefesh, can never be detached from the Ruach, because the Keter of the Nefesh is also the lowest Sefira of the Ruach, known as the Malchut of the Ruach. The parts of the soul are held together like the links of a chain. The Keter of every lower level functions as the Malchut of the level above it. The Keter of Nefesh is the Malchut of Ruach; the Keter of Ruach is the Malchut of Neshama; the Keter of Neshama is the Malchut of Knesset Yiroel.

5. Because this highest Sefira of the Nefesh cannot be detached, the parts that were severed by the Karet can always be rescued from the Kelipot and reattached to the Keter and thus to the Ruach once again through Teshuva, or repentance. Teshuva draws a bright spiritual light from the source of the Neshama in Azilut, which flows through the Neshama, passes from the Neshama through the Ruach until it enters the Malchut of Ruach, which is also the Keter of the Nefesh. The intense light that is generated in the Keter of the Nefesh cuts through the Klipot, and reattaches the severed Sefirot of the Nefesh back to itself, and as the Keter of the Nefesh is also the Malchut of the Ruach, the Karet is healed and the Nefesh and the Ruach are once again joined together.

6. Sins have the very reverse effect on the opposite extremity of the soul, the Neshama. The top nine Sefirot of the Neshama are detached from the Malchut of the Neshama, which is the Keter of the Ruach by certain types of sins. Again, the link between the Neshama and the Ruach can never be completely severed, as the top Sefira of the Ruach is also the bottom Sefira of the Neshama; the potential for healing the break is always in place.

7. As in the case of the Nefesh, the detachment of the Neshama from the Ruach is not an all or nothing proposition; not all nine levels will necessarily detach. The most severe form of detachment drives away the nine top levels of Neshama from their connection with the Ruach, from the Yesod to the Keter of the Neshama, while the mildest form of detachment will involve the separation of the level of Keter alone.

8. When the Neshama detaches from the Ruach it returns to Kneset Yisroel, its roots, the source of the Neshama in Azilut, where it is once again a portion of the Divinity itself.

9. The Ruach is the only portion of the soul that cannot detach from the rest. This prompted the Gaon of Vilna to declare that the true spiritual level of living human beings is the Ruach. The Neshama is above us and the Nefesh is beneath us. Each tugs at the Ruach in opposite directions, and it is on the level of the Ruach that we choose the overall direction of our spiritual development. But while the Ruach is unable to detach, certain sins have the effect of causing it to contract and shrink, reducing its effectiveness as a passageway that connects the Nefesh with the Neshama.

10. The healthy integrated soul is an expression of the Shechina. The Nefesh in the body connects to the Ruach; the Ruach connects to the Neshama; the Neshama connects to Knesset Yisroel, the Shechina; the spiritual light emanating from the Shechina flows all the way down to the Nefesh unimpeded and is expressed by the actions of the body as the light of God in the world.

These are the points that we shall spend the next few essays developing. There is far too much to learn to be able to include everything we need to understand all these conclusions in a single essay. Nevertheless, it is essential to focus on the entire picture as summed up in these ten points to be able to comprehend the detailed dynamics of spiritual functions.

What do souls look like? - by Rabbi Noson Weisz

To comprehend the structure of the soul, we need to begin by describing how reality itself is structured.

We live in a created universe. This means that God created the universe out of nothing. When God initiated the creation process, there was no space or time, no matter or energy [other than God's own, needless to say]. He could not fashion the universe out of pre-existing materials.

It follows that the universe is actually made of pure Divine energy, the only 'substance' that was available for God to use. This is an important point to establish and one whose implications are far from obvious at first glance…

The separation of Divine energy from its origins is described as speech. The curtain that brings about this first level of separation is known as Briah. In the world of Briah man is called a Neshama, Soul. He has already crystallized out of the composite man of Knesset Yisroel into individual form, indeed, he is even male and female, but on this level of Briah, man is male and female as a single entity; his male and female parts have not coalesced into separately identifiable elements. So God created (Vayivrah-from the word barah) Man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (Genesis 1,27)

From the level of Briah and outward man exists as an individual. As this level is just across the curtain from Azilut, the human being of Briah is aware of himself/herself as just having separated from Knesset Yisroel, from the collective human being whose energy of being was still a part of God. Man as Neshama is totally conscious of his Divine origins and cannot imagine himself either as existing without God, nor as existing separately from his male/female element. At this level man has no evil inclination or aspect and he has no freedom of choice.

Yezirah and its human inhabitant

As the Divine energy continues to flow outward from the source, a second curtain descends. Reality on the outer side of this second curtain is known as the world of Yezirah, "creative thought" in English, and man exists in this world as a Ruach, a pure spirit. It is at this level of Yezirah that he is separated into separate sexes and he makes contact with the world of his body, although the body itself does not exist in Yezirah and is located on the other side of the next curtain, where the outward flow of divine energy takes on material shape. And YHVH God, formed (Vayizer-from the word Yezirah) the man of dust from the ground, and he blew into his nostrils the soul (Nishmat-from the word Neshama) of life, and man became a living being. (Genesis 2,7) In the succeeding verses the separation of Eve from Adam is described…

Assiyah-our own world and our familiar selves

As the divine energy continues its flow outward from the source a final curtain descends. The world on the other side of this curtain is known as the world of Assiyah, meaning "completed action"; the world which we are actually conscious of inhabiting. In this world man is a Nefesh, a life force or energizing spirit, and he also has a body.

It is here that things begin to get rather more complex. The Nefesh that is an appendage of the Ruach is as spiritual as the rest of the human soul from which it stems. It is the outermost part of man's Neshama after all. Man's body on the other hand is purely material and non-spiritual. There can be no direct union between body and spirit. Entities that are diametric opposites are unable to stick to each other on a permanent bases. The union of body and pure spirit is analogous to a union between fire and water.

The shotgun marriage between two opposites

To solve this problem, man was given a second Nefesh as well to mediate between his body and the Nefesh that is the outer aspect of his Neshama. This second Nefesh is called the Nefesh Habahamith or the animate nefesh; it is what we know as the life force.

It is this animate Nefesh that is described in the Torah as being attached to the blood. Any man of the House of Israel and of the proselyte who dwells among them who will consume any blood-I shall concentrate My attention upon the soul (Nefesh) consuming the blood, and I will cut it off from its people. For the soul (Nefesh) of the flesh is in the blood and I have assigned it for you upon the Altar to provide atonement for your souls(Nefashot-Nefesh in the plural) for it is the blood that atones for the soul (Nefesh) (Vayikra 17, 10-11)

The part of the Nefesh that is attached to the Ruach is called the Nefesh Elokhit (The Divine or Godly Nefesh). This Nefesh Elokhit is wrapped into the Nefesh Habehamith which is the life force that powers the body. It is through the mediation of the envelope of the Nefesh habehamith that the Nefesh Elokhit attaches itself to the body.

This means that man is in a state of ceaseless existential conflict in the world of Assiyah. There are two Nefashot inhabiting his body in this world and they are both intelligent. The Nefesh Habehamith is still somewhat spiritual otherwise it could never mediate between the body and the Nefesh Elokhit. At the same time, as the Nefesh Habehamith is directly attached to the physical world of the body and is the life force that energizes that body, it is drawn to do a superior job and provide the body with the ultimate sensations of physical pleasure which bequeath the body with its sense of being alive. The Nefesh Elokhit which is enveloped in this Nefesh Habahamith but is purely spiritual and connected to the Ruach in Yezirah, and through the Ruach to the Neshama and above is always attempting to pull the entire organism of man away from the body towards the Neshama.

These may be on the fringe:

The Arizal on the Torah

The letters of the divine name Havayah, the five principle partzufim, the five worlds, the five "kingdoms" or levels of life in this world, the five levels of the soul, and the five aspects of the sacrifices all correspond and are summarized in the chart…

Healing the Vessel: A Conference on Jewish Healing - June 7-8, 2003

Breathing into Wholeness - Jeffrey Kessler

The breath carries the current of life throughout our bodies, feelings and thoughts, and is a natural vehicle for the integration and healing of fragmented aspects of our being. The Hebrew language points to the primacy of breath by naming the different levels of soul with breath-words: nefesh, ruach, neshama. In this workshop we will explore and expand the range of our breathing through gentle movement, chant and meditation. Our aim will be to encourage wholeness while turning and opening to the Divine Presence.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: aynrand; crevolist; kaballah; objectivism; pilgrimmage
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To: Alamo-Girl
Well A-G, about the Scriptures you presented, in each case of sin, the sinner set his will against God and in each case of obedience, the believer set will in agreement with God -- even, shucks, ESPECIALLY! ;-` in the case of Jesus, who despite admitting to his dreadful paradox of will, set his will to the cross, after setting his face like a flint toward Jerusalem for that purpose. And it was He who decided to come in to the cold, stinking world do all this from Eternity with the Father. Now THAT was WILLFULNESS!!!

I can't seem to find willfulness to be a problem any more than I find that guns are to blame, in the hands of criminals. Moses paradoxically enough, though at times setting his will wrongly, wsa singled out by God for his meekness. I imagine at least in part, this was due to having so much God-given will with which to subordinate himself to God. Such strength of will to choose identifying with slaves over the Pharaoh.

And in the New Testament, who may just be the most willful man described save for Christ Himself? I wouldn't be surprised if it were Paul, who had to be physically removed from the riot in Ephesus and who wrote of "his" gospel. ;-) (The long-lived John may be a contender for that "title" too.) Thank God for those Apostle's great, great willfulness!

I may be biased, since my name is Williams, but I don't think that's it. ;-) I'm not saying that our human will has worth of itself, of course. I'm saying it is of transcendent value, since it is from God, wonderful essense of being created in His image. Wow, I wouldn't ever will to suppress such an expression of God about Himself. That would be "lieing against the truth," to me. :-`

Please let's not allow anyone to stifle our wills, not even oneself! That's not joy. Joy is turning one's will to God in His glory! Passivity is "disgusting," but "conspiring" with God is worshipping in Spirit and in Truth.

181 posted on 05/13/2003 10:15:30 PM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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And David... did God say he was "a man passively complying with my own heart?"

After removing Saul, he made David their king. He testified concerning him: 'I have found David son of Jesse a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.'
(Whole Chapter: Acts 13 In context: Acts 13:21-23)

It takes a-lot of focused will, to keep following after someone so fast moving as God.  ;-)
182 posted on 05/13/2003 10:29:29 PM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Thank you so much for your post!

My point is not that I intuitively knew there was a Banach-Tarski Paradox, or could have solved for Penrose Tiles before he did – much less devised the Schwarzchild radius, M-theory, etc. It is that once I’ve read such a discovery or theory, it then makes sense to me, intuitively. It rings true to my spirit. It’s like when Penrose looks at an Escher and feels the geometric truth of it.

183 posted on 05/13/2003 10:31:16 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: unspun
Thank you so much for sharing your views on willfulness, unspun!

I do understand “where you are coming from” but I’m not in agreement. I think we are looking at the same end result, but from different perspectives or perhaps we have a different understanding of willfulness.

What you see as willfulness on the part of Jesus coming from eternity to earth, I see as obedience. I cannot imagine Jesus wanting to leave the Father whom He loves with all of His being. In my view, Christ’s will would be to stay with the Father, but He surrendered His will to the Father and came to earth to do His bidding. Of everything Christ suffered on the cross (Psalms 22) - rejection, even temporary, must have been the worst.

Indeed, Moses was the most humble man on earth. You call it willfulness that Moses subordinated himself to God, I call it obedience.

Certainly Paul was strong willed. And when his self became at issue, God gave him a thorn in the flesh to humble him:

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. – II Cor 12:7-10

To me, the issue is like not being able to have love without hate, courage without fear, strength without weakness, humility without pride. There can be no obedience without willfulness. When Christ tells us to abide in Him and He will abide in us, it’s not an invitation for viral invasion, multiple personalities or a collective consciousness. Our identity is surrendered in Him and He glorifies us.

In an earthly parallel, a loving married couple can be so “into” each other that when the husband dies, the widow (or widower) cannot tell you whether she wants a hamburger with cheese because that’s what she wants or because that’s what he always wanted. The two were one.

Please let's not allow anyone to stifle our wills, not even oneself! That's not joy. Joy is turning one's will to God in His glory! Passivity is "disgusting," but "conspiring" with God is worshipping in Spirit and in Truth.

You must worship God as you see fit. As for me, I surrender my will to Jesus, I pour myself into Him and He fills me with Himself. The less of me, and the more of Him, the better. That is pure joy to me! You are like Paul, I am like John.

184 posted on 05/13/2003 11:20:30 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I need to go to bed A-G. Surrender yes, but much more than that is to join.

Show me a passage that says "loose yourself so that you no longer have an identity and are directly animated by me." Oh my, I sure wouldn't want a wife nor child like that. Darling lady, pick up your tasty cheeseburger and enjoy it with your Master and be glad for it with Him! To put it delicately, the husband wants a bride that will be engaged in love with him, not just let him do what he does with her. And the father wants to play catch, not have a target. ;-)

Why would God want emptied what He has regenerated? Why did he make people with wills, in His own image in the first place? -- Such a hideously costly thing for Jesus to pay for just see it all abandoned instead of enjoined.

Maybe you are into "quietism" A? Yes we need to be still and know... to listen and not offer the sacrifice of fools in the presence of the King, but beeeyooonnnnd that, we need to actively engage in a relationship with the one we were created for, having heard the King.

As for John he very willingly leaned his head on Jesus breast. That is what he wanted to do! And was the picture of motivation running to see the empty tomb. And listen to the passion and creative expression in his Epistles, not automatic writing. He is fully engaged as one actively given to and with His Savior. As for Paul, the words say that his heightened experiences with God were the heady stuff, not the strong impetus God chose him for, due to the vastness and arduousness of his mission. Thank God he didn't relent, but went to Rome.

As for Jesus, it was "for the joy set before him...!" -- "he will see his children and be satisfied...." He is the personification of the initiating God, and we are both responders and cooperators in the fulfillment of His mission.

Don't you dare spill out the identity He has bled to pour into you. ;-` Glorify God with the only thing you are: you. (He is him and needs no other.)
185 posted on 05/14/2003 12:15:05 AM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
John 10
17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Hebrews 10
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
   "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
       but a body you prepared for me;
    6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
       you were not pleased.
    7Then I said, 'Here I am--it is written about me in the scroll--
       I have come to do your will, O God.' "[1] 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Psalm 40
6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but my ears you have pierced [1] , [2] ;
burnt offerings and sin offerings
you did not require.
7 Then I said, "Here I am, I have come-
it is written about me in the scroll. [3]
8 I desire to do your will, O my God;
your law is within my heart.
"

186 posted on 05/14/2003 12:51:27 AM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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To: unspun
You were reassured after reading a book that was written by someone that cannot know anymore about the unknown than anyone else...Why?
187 posted on 05/14/2003 6:19:03 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: Alamo-Girl
And the discoveries invariably confirm what I already instinctively, spiritually, knew ought to be there.

A-G, you point to the critical difference between knowing and knowing about. The first is primary, the second derivative from a process of investigation. We might say (in the language of Pascal) that the former is "finesse thinking" (intuitive); the latter "geometrical thinking." We routinely do both; but lately there is a tendency to say that only the geometrical is legitimate. Thus discounting all primary experience, which is essentially intuitive.

Scientism really has gotten matters pretty warped. JMHO FWIW.

188 posted on 05/14/2003 6:28:21 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: stuartcr
I don't have much time right now, but that's a good question. The basic answer is that I was reminded of what the Word of God is, as written in the Scriptures, and it resounded in my mind and heart, where the Holy Spirit has been accepted.
189 posted on 05/14/2003 7:17:15 AM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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To: unspun
Thank you so much for this conversation and for sharing your views! I suspect this is a very timely issue to many believers, especially perhaps to women.

I have a daughter and a step-daughter who both deeply resented the passages in Scripture which instruct a woman to submit to her husband – I suspect they feared losing their own identity and potentially being under a cruel thumb. All my kids are very strong willed as am I. But strength and will are two different things.

The counter-balance to the submission passages are three commands to the husband to love the wife. Paul further expands the meaning of love in that context to the self-sacrificing love that Christ has for the church. I believe the one-sided command to the husband is because perfect love casts out all fear. The parallel of marital submission to spiritual submission is based on Scripture (emphasis mine):

Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband. – Ephesians 5:21-33

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. – I John 4:18

Your challenge “Show me a passage that says "loose yourself so that you no longer have an identity and are directly animated by me." … To put it delicately, the husband wants a bride that will be engaged in love with him, not just let him do what he does with her. reminds me a lot of the concerns my daughter’s raised about marriage. I have been married several times, two of my husbands are deceased. On experience, I assure you that where the husband loves the wife, there is no mean-spirited conduct of any kind – including coercion - and conversely, where that love is not there, there is no marriage only two people living under a civil agreement at law (which ought be dissolved IMHO FWIW.) But what God has joined together, no man ought put asunder (Matthew 19:6).

Jesus’ authority spoken of in John 10:17 which you quoted – i.e. to lay down His life only to take it up again - is unique to Jesus and is a gift of the Father:

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; - John 5:26

The passages you quote from Hebrews 10 support my contention that Jesus surrendered His will to the Father’s will, especially this:

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. – Hebrews 10:9-10

The passage from Psalms 40 and in many other places throughout Scripture concern the doing of God’s will. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus raised the bar as follows:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. – Matthew 5:48

The command isn’t to do perfect things or say perfect things, He said to be perfect. This is something that mortals cannot achieve (all men have sinned and come short of the glory of God) --- but it can be achieved by God in His presence in us in the person of the Holy Spirit.

Why would God want emptied what He has regenerated? Why did he make people with wills, in His own image in the first place? -- Such a hideously costly thing for Jesus to pay for just see it all abandoned instead of enjoined… Don't you dare spill out the identity He has bled to pour into you. ;-` Glorify God with the only thing you are: you. (He is him and needs no other.)

I’m troubled that you are offended by my submission to God. But that is your problem, not mine. I have no regrets; quite the contrary, I have great joy and peace in my submission – and I’m much, much stronger as a result, because when it is not me doing and saying things, I am a vessel of His will.

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. - II Cor 10:3-6

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure - Philippians 2:13

The same Greek word for will in Philippians 2:13 is interpreted as “listeth” in the following passage:

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. - John 3:7-8


190 posted on 05/14/2003 8:21:25 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: unspun
OK, thanx
191 posted on 05/14/2003 8:25:40 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your reply and for confirming my understanding of your post! You really opened my eyes to scientism. Hugs!!!
192 posted on 05/14/2003 8:29:21 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
A-G, I don't have time to read this much valued post right now, but for the moment, let me say that I AGREE STRONGLY with all the Scriptures you've quoted!

tee hee hee
193 posted on 05/14/2003 8:38:51 AM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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To: unspun
Darling lady, pick up your tasty cheeseburger and enjoy it with your Master

I had a hunch you were a bit odd--forgive me. But this last bit is such a gooey, coagulated, decompressed, and semi-ripened curd of a sentence that I nearly slipped on your point.

And I am such a skeptic. I am suspicious of myself. How did I manage to see through this drip?

A-G didn't. She's not dancing wid' ya.

194 posted on 05/14/2003 8:48:46 AM PDT by cornelis
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To: unspun
You've got quite a friend in Elizabeth Newman, betty boop. Maybe we should make her article the next one to post a thread on!!! What do you think A-G?

It's a great article, Brother Arlen. I'd be up for a standalone post!!! You want to do the honors, or should I?

195 posted on 05/14/2003 8:52:50 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: cornelis
I'm presuming you picked up the context from the post to which this replies. Tell me then. What's yer beef?
196 posted on 05/14/2003 8:55:59 AM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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To: betty boop; cornelis; Alamo-Girl
I'm really busy for the rest of the week, could you post Betsy's article?

(And I'm wondering who's dancing to what tune, in this little discussion of will vs. what... anti-will? eastern mysticism? In a dance, the lady moves with the man in full agreement that causes her to fully, willfully dance in submission to her Waltz partner. She likes it, Mikey. What is the problem? Misapplied doctrine of dennial?)

197 posted on 05/14/2003 8:59:51 AM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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To: cornelis
...a bit odd--forgive me.

But thanks for the compliment, c.

198 posted on 05/14/2003 9:01:35 AM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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To: unspun
What's yer beef?

I like the beef. It's the cheese. Too much cheese.

199 posted on 05/14/2003 9:03:09 AM PDT by cornelis
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To: Alamo-Girl
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. – Hebrews 10:9-10

He did that of his own free will! He didn't lose his will any more than he lost his reason or sensibilities, his mind or his heart.

BTW, it looks to me like "the first" as is refered to here in the context, is the sacrificial system (compliance with law) and "the second" is full hearted obedience.

Love the LORD with all your heart all your mind all your soul and all your might! See?

200 posted on 05/14/2003 9:17:43 AM PDT by unspun (Don't just eat the doughnut, appreciate the whole.)
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