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Thank you so much for sharing your views on willfulness, unspun!

I do understand “where you are coming from” but I’m not in agreement. I think we are looking at the same end result, but from different perspectives or perhaps we have a different understanding of willfulness.

What you see as willfulness on the part of Jesus coming from eternity to earth, I see as obedience. I cannot imagine Jesus wanting to leave the Father whom He loves with all of His being. In my view, Christ’s will would be to stay with the Father, but He surrendered His will to the Father and came to earth to do His bidding. Of everything Christ suffered on the cross (Psalms 22) - rejection, even temporary, must have been the worst.

Indeed, Moses was the most humble man on earth. You call it willfulness that Moses subordinated himself to God, I call it obedience.

Certainly Paul was strong willed. And when his self became at issue, God gave him a thorn in the flesh to humble him:

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. – II Cor 12:7-10

To me, the issue is like not being able to have love without hate, courage without fear, strength without weakness, humility without pride. There can be no obedience without willfulness. When Christ tells us to abide in Him and He will abide in us, it’s not an invitation for viral invasion, multiple personalities or a collective consciousness. Our identity is surrendered in Him and He glorifies us.

In an earthly parallel, a loving married couple can be so “into” each other that when the husband dies, the widow (or widower) cannot tell you whether she wants a hamburger with cheese because that’s what she wants or because that’s what he always wanted. The two were one.

Please let's not allow anyone to stifle our wills, not even oneself! That's not joy. Joy is turning one's will to God in His glory! Passivity is "disgusting," but "conspiring" with God is worshipping in Spirit and in Truth.

You must worship God as you see fit. As for me, I surrender my will to Jesus, I pour myself into Him and He fills me with Himself. The less of me, and the more of Him, the better. That is pure joy to me! You are like Paul, I am like John.