Vermont Cop Story: AP's Bias or America's?

Rush Limbaugh ^ | May 6, 2003 | Rush Limbaugh

[.30Carbine]

Vermont Cop Story: AP's Bias or America's?

May 6, 2003

I spent Tuesday's Hour One discussing this story about Vermont police officer John Mott. While off duty at 1:30 AM, Mott entered a high school through an open service door. He then asked a janitor to unlock a classroom so he could take pictures of displays by "passionate pacifist" teacher Tom Treece to present to an attorney.

The Associated Press headlines this story: "Vt. Cop Photographed Class Projects," pointing a finger at the cop as the villain. We had to go to a local paper, the Barre Montpelier Times Argus, to find the classroom details. But this is not a media bias story. I held off giving my opinion on these events just to see what my audience's reaction would be, as you'll see below. More:

The officer reports taking pictures of "a poster of President Bush with duct tape over his mouth and a large papier-mâché combat boot with the American flag stuffed inside stepping on a doll, along with pictures of Cuban dictator Fidel Castro and his co-thug reactionary Ernesto “Che” Guevara. They aren't "pacifists"! Besides, the whole so-called peace movement was organized around defending and protecting Saddam Hussein! The slogan: "All hail the idiot boy king" was posted next to a picture of President Bush as, Treece claimed, "a reason to reject the high school budget."

If Mr. Treece posted pictures of me and Ronald Reagan on the wall, this cop would be a hero and the teacher would be on his way out. Apparently there were "rumors" about this teacher's curriculum, so this officer investigated. It's reported that there's a "backlash" against Officer Mott, but not that there was any sort of backlash against the class content. Why does it take a cop, taking pictures at 1:30 AM on his own time, to find out what's going on in this class? Where are the parents?

Is this not a public school? Our legal division doesn't see any constitutional issue on the officer entering the classroom in his private or public capacity; there's no expectation of privacy in a public school. We had a police officer call us up and say that Mott was off duty and out of his jurisdiction, so he shouldn't have entered the school or asked to be let into the locked classroom. You can hear such calls below along with my lengthily reporting of the details. I dedicated more than an hour to this story, and here's why:

After 70 minutes of discussion, all my e-mails and calls similarly focused on the cop - just like AP did. "So what, Rush?" So we hear education this and education that all the time in this country. Everybody claims to care about teaching "the children." But if we really cared about education, 90% of the garbage going on inside classrooms wouldn't be permitted. We would have parents involved in their children's education that know every word on the chalkboard and in the books. A police officer - who from this story doesn't seem to have any kids in the school much less in Treece's class - wouldn't have to enter through a service door and then ask a janitor to unlock the classroom for him. The parents would have expressed their outrage; instead, there wasn't a peep.

[dpa5923]

Although I am not about to argue the merits of the cops actions or the legality of them, I wanted to congratulate you on expressing an important and often misunderstood or completely foreign concept. Legal does not mean right and illegal does not mean wrong. You are correct when you say Those who cannot distinguish between right and wrong as opposed to legal or illegal are morally bankrupt.

Good job. (not that you need my approval or praise)

[TigersEye]

...and, from what I have heard, the community is predominently conservative, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I don't know where you heard that. This state is overflowing with "NO WAR FOR OIL" liberals particularly in Montpelier and Barre. Nearby Plainfield is the town where teenagers felt no hesitation in abusing a National Guardsman (woman) in uniform with profanities and rock throwing at a convenience store in broad daylight.

[CobaltBlue]

Civil disobedience is only justified when the law is unjust.

Why didn't the police officer go to the school during business hours, before or after class, explain his concerns, and ask to see the classroom?

[TigersEye]

Try going to a public school where you don't have kids and ask to see a particular classroom. You will be asked to leave.

Try going to this school if you do have kids there and ask to see their classroom. You will be asked to leave. That's what brought this situation about.

But it was unethical for him to go outside his jurisdiction while on duty in pursuit of his own personal political agenda.

He was on his lunch break so jurisdiction is irrelevant. He didn't do this in his capacity as a police officer.

[BSunday]

"goddess bless the world" ???? It's a sure bet the ACLU wont come callin about church and state, isnt it.

[dpa5923]

Like I said, I am not argueing the merits of the cops actions. I was commenting on a concept often forgotten. Legal does not make right.

[wtc911]

There are numerous avenues of access to almost every military installation. Not all are posted. I would not suggest trying a "there was no sign" and "I'm a taxpayer" arguments with an MP.

As for the cop, while I applaud his motive his action was plain dumb. He gives the appearance of using the weight of the badge to gain access to a locked classroom. At the very least he likely violated departmental procedures and rules.

If I recall my radio car days correctly we were bound to our sector for the duration of the tour, even when coded out 10-63(out of service-meal). This officer was in uniform, in a RP and out of his sector. He will be reprimanded.

As for the "teacher"...he is a POS who should be fired.

[dirtboy]

Try going to this school if you do have kids there and ask to see their classroom. You will be asked to leave. That's what brought this situation about.

That is conjecture on your part. From what I have read, it was not a secret what was in that classroom, as the issue had been discussed previously in front of the school board.

He was on his lunch break so jurisdiction is irrelevant. He didn't do this in his capacity as a police officer.

He was in uniform at the time and on duty - he is claiming he was on break. What I haven't seen is whether he used a police cruiser to get over to the school. IMO he had no business going there in that manner and at that time of night. I don't think what he did was illegal - but I think it was unethical, and we'll see what the police chief and the town manager do about it. That'll be the best indicator.

[dirtboy]

See post #107, especially paragraph three.

[TigersEye]

Fries, a self-described “conservative” said he recently put it to the test, polling juniors and seniors on the issue of whether Treece provides a balanced perspective in his classroom. He said the overwhelming answer was “yes.” Of the 78 people he polled, Fries said 75 willingly signed his petition.

If you took a poll in Boston about liberal bias on CNN I wonder what the numbers would be? My wife's brother and sister in-law, who live there, are absolutely stunned and perplexed that I would suggest that CNN isn't reporting completely objective gospel truth. What do these teenagers know?

[TigersEye]

Teaching them to think for themselves.

And they come up with "Bush, the idiot boy king, ought to have duct tape on his mouth because he lies about tax cuts and Saddam Hussein"? Since when do liberals think for themselves?

[John O]

The government owns the building, and citizens can indeed be prohibited from entry onto government lands. Just try wandering into the Naval Special Weapons Depot in Virginia sometime...

You can be prevented from entering via security or other requirements but if you entered you would not be trespassing. You'd be breaking and entering or violating some other rule. You cannot trespass on what you own. Go to the Depot and read the signs. I'll bet they say "No entry. Authorized personnel only" or some such. Not no tresspassing. (At least the ones in the bases around here read that way.

As a parallel example, I own Ford stock. I may not, however, legally wander into a Ford plant, or take a new Ford automobile from the line, or take parts, despite the fact that I OWN part of the company.

Close but no cigar. The government does not own the school, we do. We again, are not trespassing. Now if the officer took something other than pictures he would have been stealing from all of us. He didn't take anything and he didn't trespass. No problem.

(I know what you mean about Ford. Bummer isn't it. I own Green Bay Packers stock and I can't ven get tickets)

[moneyrunner]

It should be very easy to prove that the teacher provides a balanced perspective on what he teaches. All we have to do is look at his work product. I’ll believe that he provide balance when I see an equal number of displays showing contempt for the Left as there are showing contempt for the Right. An equal number of pro-America posters to balance the anti-America posters. An equal number of pro-Bush posters as there are anti-Bush Posters.

Unless the argument is made that the teacher has no impact on the beliefs of his students, those beliefs should be reflected in the work product. Lets see the work product. Let's see ALL the posters.

[moneyrunner]

Here's the thread. It's a long one. I stopped counting after 250 posts. It was becoming a lynch mob with the cop as guest of honor and CobaltBlue heading the necktie party.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/906541/posts

[dirtboy]

And they come up with "Bush, the idiot boy king, ought to have duct tape on his mouth because he lies about tax cuts and Saddam Hussein"? Since when do liberals think for themselves?

I definitely belief the school board should require the teacher to limit how the teacher expresses his political views on the job. I don't think they should be squelched entirely, but he's over the top. And if the school board doesn't act, the voters should fire THEM.

Back in high school in the late seventies (gag), I had a German teacher. Flaming Democrat, and me and my friend were die-hard Republicans. We had a lot of good natured political banter, including having peanuts in green cups served to us by the teacher the day after Carter won the election. The teacher was never as virulent with his political views as the creep in question was, nor did he have political posters about his room. I don't think it's a good idea to completely restrain teachers on political opinions, but having a REGIME CHANGE bumper sticker on your classroom door goes too far...

[f.Christian]

te ...

Would you please post a link to yesterdays thread? Thank you!

mr ...

There is a sub-set of lunatic loons who appear to wish the end of American society as we know it. Like the Nazis and the communists in Weimar Germany, they have a great deal in common as ... potential destroyers --- of the social fabric.

I have engaged in several debates in the last few days, and I admire FreeRepublic as a forum for the free expression of ideas, but the overwhelming presence of this bunch of loons is very off-putting.

Lenin is supposed to have said that capitalists would sell him the rope by which they were to be hung. The “anarcho-loons” on this forum would not bother to sell the rope but provide it as a public service.

401 posted on 05/06/2003 5:54 PM PDT by moneyrunner (I have not flattered its rank breath, nor bowed to its idolatries a patient knee.)

fC ...

last night -- early this morning ...

I was thinking of putting this post up as a thread for discussion !

Even sent one to the mgmnt !

[CobaltBlue]

>>The government does not own the school, we do.<<

Typically school property is held in the name of the school board of the jurisdiction. It's not a commons, like the banks of navigable rivers and the shores of the oceans and navigable lakes, and public roads and highways and sidewalks.

"We" own federal land, but can be excluded from that, as well.

For example, to get into a reading room in the Library of Congress, which "we" own, you need to get a researcher's card, which you get by showing a photo ID and filing out a form explaining the reason you want to use the library.

You can't even get into the Supreme Court Library, which "we" own, unless you are an attorney who has been admitted to the US Supreme Court.

You can't get into the White House, which "we" own, at all, period, unless you're invited.

[dirtboy]

The government does not own the school, we do. We again, are not trespassing

I think you should check out a former cop's perspective on this matter in post #107. I think it's more likely the cop violated departmental guidelines rather than trespass laws. I also think the custodian probably violated some school guidelines in his actions.

[been_lurking]

So what do you think about the teacher and the "anti-war" classroom project?

[TigersEye]

I definitely belief the school board should require the teacher to limit how the teacher expresses his political views on the job.

If you follow the link that Cobalt Blue put up to the Times Argus article you will find that only one school board member has bothered to visit the classroom in question. The school board defends him.

And if the school board doesn't act, the voters should fire THEM.

That is the aim of many citizens in Barre but I think the teacher's union may trump the school board even if it is changed.