Posted on 05/02/2003 11:53:16 AM PDT by SJackson
Great info.
Get specific. What's your plan? Is it to forcibly remove these people and transfer them into Jordan? If so, would you have them paid for the property of which they're dispossessed, a la eminent domain? Is it basically removing people -- ie the way we did the American Indians in the 19th Century? IF that's your plan, say it directly without circumlocution ("let Jordan deal with them" -- that's a vague statement). Again, please be specific: You want them forcibly removed from their property? If this is your proposal, be honest enough to say it clearly.
"Any outlaw regime that has ties to terrorist groups, and seeks or possesses weapons of mass destruction, is a grave danger to the civilized world, and will be confronted," he said, outlining the principles of the US war on terror.
"Any person, organization, or government that supports, protects or harbours terrorists is complicit in the murder of the innocent, and equally guilty of terrorist crimes."
Since Sharon and GWB seem to agree on the establishment of a state. What's missing is acceptance of Israel by the Arab world, which includes an abandonment of the right of return, without which peace is impossible. That’s the untouchable third rail.
Without recognition, we're essentially talking about an agreement between warring parties, actions verified by a trusted party are essential, not just words. That’s what Sharon has asked for, and that’s what GWB has asked for. I suspect over the next few months we'll see a disagreement or two between the State Dept and the White House and either compliance will be demanded of the PA, or we'll simply mosey on down the road to the next war.
BTW, over time not only will a terrorist state in the territories, and that's what the road map is heading toward, not contribute to regional stability, but will vindicate Sadaam and earn him a place as a revered martyr of the palestinian cause.
"Tourism Minister Benny Elon has proposed a new outline for peace in the Middle East, entitled: 'In the Wake of the War in Iraq - A Historic Opportunity for a Regional Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.'
"Elon, successor to the assassinated Rehavam Ze'evi as head of the Moledet Party in the National Union, conceived the plan as an alternative to the Road Map currently under consideration. He says that the Road Map is merely a "rehashing of the decades-old goal of trying to seat two peoples on the western side of the Jordan River" - an objective he calls "unworkable" and "dangerous." Giving the Arabs of Yesha a quasi-state will not solve the fundamental problems of borders and refugees, Elon says, but will instead guarantee the next round of terrorism and warfare.
"Elon's plan offers what he calls 'the genuine and original two-state solution,' proposing that it encompass the full extent of Mandatory Palestine on both sides of the Jordan River. ..."
MY COMMENT...
I believe a plan such as this is the only kind that will work
This family feud has been going on for millenia... (see Genesis chapters 12 through 21 regarding Ishmael and Isaac).
Both parties have historically valid claims in their connection to Abraham. Both have rightful claims to long residency in the land. Both were guaranteed a national homeland by recent occupying powers ( British Balfour Declaration of 1917). Both claim the same holy religious site (al Aqsa Mosque sits on the location of Israel's Holy Temple site - above the "wailing wall").
The problem is and always has been the desperate nature of the struggle each side perceives.
From the Crusades, to the pogroms of Eastern Europe to Hitler's final solution, the Jewish people have been in a struggle to preserve the existence of their race/people. The pan-Arab peoples of the region, through agencies such as the PLO and similar organizations have vowed "to drive the Jews into the sea." Despite later repudiation the obvious passion of that oath continues.
Israel's former Prime Minister Golda Meir revealed the power of their determination, "We Jews have a secret weapon in our struggle with the Arabs - we have no place to go."
Regarding Palestinian claims, since the conquest of the Muslim Caliph Omar in 638 a.d. Arab groups have lived on the land. This has been their home. A familiar sense of the Palestinian claim might be found in our American Indians. However, for the Palestinians it wasn't 350 years ago that their land was invaded (as when people began displacing American Indians) ...it was only 60 years ago!
The UN attempt to bring about a solution in 1947 was, as with most things stamped "UN," unrealistic, ineffective, and without moral capital. However fair the division may appear on a map (UN's patchwork division of Israel), the animosity of blood feud has proven too powerful. Mix oxygen and fire and it consumes everything in proximity.
This is why I believe Elon's plan is the only, even remotely, managable solution. Put the brothers on either side of the Jordan river...if you cross it, you are a legitimate target. Now, let's talk peace.
(Not mentioned is the sticky solution to Jerusalem. I suggest a massive engineering challenge: relocate the al Aqsa Mosque since it is both more recent and right where the Jews would likely rebuild their temple. Move the Mosque, Dome of the Rock and all, surrounding dirt and all, and rebuild it on the other side of the river.)
No, particularly if you're traveling in reverse. see 11. Since for better or worse Sharon and GWB aren’t far apart, it’s much better to demand compliance from the PA. If the US objective is a more stable middle east it makes no more sense to let the UN, the EU, Russia and Britian dictate the solution here than it would have in Iraq.
Re your comment toAric2000, transfer is the misunderstood boogeyman of the process. Most proposals I’ve seen which have envisaged a rump state or autonomous zone ruled by Jordan (or Israel) would grand Jordanian citizenship (or palestinian, if a state) to the residents of ceded and unceded portions of the territories, accompanied by the right (if peaceful, otherwise deportation or jail) to live and work in the new “state”. Could they move, sure, and their might be both financial and social incentives to do so, but that doesn’t involved forced transfers.
Speaking of transfers and financial costs, it’s probably worth touching on two points.
First, there will be transfers, even under the road map. As we speak over sixty percent of the Arab refugees live in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. They will NEVER be allowed to settle in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. They WILL be transferred, if the Arab’s have their way (they won’t) to Israel proper, more likely to whatever entity emerges. I believe at Camp David the cost was estimated at $30-$35 billion (guess who pays?).
In addition, in what I view as an act out of character with American values, any palestinian state created will also require the forcible deportation of all Jews, since Jews will not be offered citizenship nor allowed to live in a “road map” created state. So transfer of millions of Arabs and Jews will be happening, even under the “road map”, just a matter of who goes where.
IMO, given what will be a substantial resettlement bill to the US under any circumstances, I think a good starting point might be giving financial incentives along with a gentle nudge to Jordan, Syria, and the Syrian province of Lebanon to absorb the refugees. They’ve been there nearly 60 years now. Maybe even some incentive to free Lebanon.
But removing approx. 375,000 Jews from "settlements" is fine and dandy by you?
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