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Americans raise hackles by flying Stars and Stripes in Iraq
The Guardian ^ | Saturday March 22, 2003 | Nicholas Watt

Posted on 03/22/2003 12:00:03 PM PST by vannrox

American marines swept aside Iraqi sensibilities yesterday to raise the Stars and Stripes at the entrance to Iraq's main port of Umm Qasr. In a move condemned by MPs as crass, the marines replaced the Iraqi flag in an attempt to recreate the iconic image of the US flag being raised over the Pacific island of Iwo Jima in the second world war.



Geoff Hoon, the defence secretary, promised to pass on British concerns about the raising of the flag, which undermined allied claims that they were liberating, not conquering, Iraq.

His remarks came after Crispin Blunt, a Tory MP who served in the first Gulf war, said: "It would be singularly unfortunate if the Stars and Stripes was, for example, planted over the parliament building in Baghdad at a future stage."

Promising to raise the matter with the US authorities, Mr Hoon attempted to calm waters by saying: "It is necessary to understand how, at the end of what was a vigorous confrontation, any soldiers are likely to feel the need to demonstrate their success, which I suspect is what happened overnight."

Britain underlined its determination to respect Iraqi sovereignty by warning its troops not to wave the union flag. Addressing 1 Battalion the Irish Guards this week, Lieutenant Colonel Tim Collins said: "We go to liberate, not to conquer."

The Americans later replaced the Iraqi flag in Umm Qasr.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: 911; cia; flag; grunt; hate; iraq; kgb; marine; military; nsa; photo; plane; raise; saddam; soldier; symbol; uk; un; war; wtc
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"...Britain underlined its determination to respect Iraqi sovereignty by warning its troops not to wave the union flag..."
1 posted on 03/22/2003 12:00:03 PM PST by vannrox
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To: vannrox
Just elated soldiers; gaff was fixed. Don't lets get our knickers in a bunch over the small stuff....
2 posted on 03/22/2003 12:03:46 PM PST by yoe
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To: vannrox
Cheeze, they just got through a significant engagement. Let the combat troops celebrate their success & survival. The rear-echelon types can play "re-arrange the flags."
3 posted on 03/22/2003 12:10:22 PM PST by Tallguy
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To: yoe; Rodney King
This is silly. Marines famously raised Old Glory over Iwo Jima and yet we gave that island back to Japan after the war. Taken far enough, this political correctness would have our soldiers and Marines take the "US" out of "US Army" and "USMC" on the uniforms.
4 posted on 03/22/2003 12:11:31 PM PST by Stingray51
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To: yoe
Hasn't raising the flag been the symbol of victory forever?

Just goes to show that the P.C. crowd is still trying to stir up trouble.

A few less of those guys wouldn't "offend" me one bit.
5 posted on 03/22/2003 12:11:42 PM PST by MIgramma (FEAR= False Evidence Alleged Real)
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To: vannrox
Good grief, i'd wonder if they'd complain if it was a UN flag.
6 posted on 03/22/2003 12:12:16 PM PST by demlosers
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To: vannrox
We should be raising the older Iraqi Flag, the one without the writing between the stars followed by the US Flag under it.


old flag

"Saddam Flag"

7 posted on 03/22/2003 12:13:43 PM PST by gaucho (Baghdad or bust!)
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To: vannrox
. In a move condemned by MPs as crass, the marines replaced the Iraqi flag in an attempt to recreate the iconic image of the US flag being raised over the Pacific island of Iwo Jima in the second world war<<

Are you one of those leftists who cannot imagine the stars and stripes in their beloved Baghdad?

How about in Paris?

8 posted on 03/22/2003 12:15:07 PM PST by Jim Noble
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To: vannrox
After having been shot at for twelve hours the subtlety of the diplomatic fiasco I was about to create would have been lost on me also.

I rather have the grunts concentrate on killing people and destroying things and leave the chain of command to correct any errors in judgement, which was done.

Ironically the mistake was brought to the attention of the company NCO, who quickly ordered the Iraqi flag back up, by the press rather than the COC.

9 posted on 03/22/2003 12:16:08 PM PST by Amerigomag
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To: Tallguy
>>The rear-echelon types<<

I believe the technical term is "Rear Echelon Motherf***ers".

10 posted on 03/22/2003 12:16:21 PM PST by Jim Noble
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To: vannrox

U.S. Marine Pvt 1st Class Luther Leguire raises the U.S. flag atop the American Consulate in Seoul just prior its recapture on 29 Sept, 1950.

11 posted on 03/22/2003 12:16:58 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Never forget 9/11/01)
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To: gaucho
We should be raising the older Iraqi Flag, the one without the writing between the stars followed by the US Flag under it.

Outstanding idea. Hopefully the older flag doesn't have any negative implications we're not aware of.

12 posted on 03/22/2003 12:26:33 PM PST by Randjuke
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To: gaucho
"We should be raising the older Iraqi Flag, the one without the writing between the stars followed by the US Flag under it."

NO ! NO !

The Stars ansd Stripes NEVER fly lower than another flag ; Fly the old Iraq fly on the same level with the U.S. flag ; that is enough courtesy, plus an affirmation of regime change.

13 posted on 03/22/2003 12:26:59 PM PST by hoosierham
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To: vannrox
Mr. Hoon is a loon ; neither our U.S. troops nor the Brits need be afraid to show the flag they fight for, and it isn't the blue and white rag of world dictatorship nor the Iraqi flag.
14 posted on 03/22/2003 12:30:16 PM PST by hoosierham
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To: vannrox
True, we are not going to be an occupying force; so why not give the Iraquis American flags to display as they choose? I'll bet they'd have run one up the same flagpole!
15 posted on 03/22/2003 12:36:21 PM PST by JimRed (God save Joisey from the RINOS)
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To: yoe
meaga - dittoes!!!
16 posted on 03/22/2003 12:53:26 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: Randjuke
We should be raising the older Iraqi Flag, the one without the writing between the stars followed by the US Flag under it.

Outstanding idea. Hopefully the older flag doesn't have any negative implications we're not aware of.

Note that the flag of Trans-Jordan will be carried into battle and flown by C-Company of the British First Para Battalion. Since the one the Brit Paras are carrying with them was a replacement for one lost at *the Bridge too Far* at Arnhem, and was presented to the Paras by none other than His Royal Highness [then Prince] Abdullah of Jordan, great-grandson of Emir Abdullah who had presented the original, I doubt the Whitehall functionaries raise much of a stink about that one. After all, King Abdullah might order them beheaded for their impertinence, and the lads of the Paras would likely be only too glad to gleefully carry such a favour out, even if not directed by one of their own Royals. Like the Paras, Abdullah is a real soldier.


17 posted on 03/22/2003 1:00:56 PM PST by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: hoosierham
"We should be raising the older Iraqi Flag, the one without the writing between the stars followed by the US Flag under it."

NO ! NO !

The Stars ansd Stripes NEVER fly lower than another flag ; Fly the old Iraq fly on the same level with the U.S. flag ; that is enough courtesy, plus an affirmation of regime change.


Flag rules say that the flag of a country flies above, or higher if multiple flag poles, then the other flags. It would be disrespectful to fly Stars and Strips above.
18 posted on 03/22/2003 1:02:06 PM PST by gaucho (Baghdad or bust!)
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To: vannrox
While we are on the subject of Stars and Strips. I heard this when I was a kid, many years ago and wrote it down. Over time, I've made some changes here and there and don't have any idea where it originally came from.





  Hello--Remember Me? I'm your Flag. Some folks call me Old Glory, others call me Star and Stripes, the Ensign, or just...the flag. But whatever they call me, I am your flag, and, as I proudly state, The Flag of the United States of America.

Something has been bothering me lately. I was wondering if I might talk it over with you. It's about you and me.

I remember some time ago, I think it was Memorial Day, or maybe it was the 4th of July. People lined up on both sides of the street to watch a parade. When your father saw me coming along, waving in the breeze, he took his hat off and held it against his left shoulder. His hand was directly over his heart. Remember?

And you, I remember you! Standing there -- straight as a soldier. You didn't have a hat on, but you gave the correct salute. They taught you in school to place your hand over your heart. Remember your little sister? Not to be outdone, she was saluting the same as you. I was proud, very proud, as I came down the street. Oh, yes, there were some Servicemen there, standing at attention, giving the military salute. Ladies as well as men. Civilians as well as military, paid me respect...reverence.

Now if I sound a bit conceited...well...I have a right to. I represent the finest country in the world -- the United States of America. More then one aggressive nation has tried to haul me down, only to feel the fury of this freedom loving country. Many of you had to go overseas to defend me. A lot more blood has been shed since those patriotic parades of long ago, and I've had a few stars added since you were a boy, but I'm still the same ole flag.

Dad is gone now...and the hometown has a new look. The last time I came down your street, I noticed that some of the old landmarks had given way to a number of new buildings and homes. Yessir, the old town has changed. I guess I have too, 'cause I don't feel as proud as I did back then.

I see youngsters running and shouting through the street, people selling hot dogs and beer while our national anthem is played...everything from apathy to riots. They don't seem to know or care who I am. Not too long ago, I saw a man take his hat off when I came by...He looked around, didn't see anybody else with theirs off...so he quickly put his back on.

Now when I come down your street, your just stand there with your hands in your pockets. Occasionally, you give me a small glance and look away. When I think of all the places I've been... Normandy, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Battle of the Bulge, Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Somalia, Haiti, Persian Gulf, and Bosnia. I wonder what's happened? I'm still the same ole flag.

How can I be expected to fly high and proud from buildings and homes when within them, there is no thought, love or respect for me? Whatever happened to Patriotism? Your Patriotism? Have you forgotten what I stand for? Have you forgotten all the battlefields where men and women fought and died to keep this nation free? When you salute me, you salute them. Take a look back at the Memorial Honor rolls sometimes. Look at the names of those who never came back. Some of them where friends and relatives of yours... Maybe even went to school with you. That's what you're saluting -- NOT ME!

Well, it won't be long before I come down your street again. So, when you see me, stand straight, and place your hand over your heart. Do this because I represent you. You'll see me wave back, my salute to you.
 

19 posted on 03/22/2003 1:09:03 PM PST by gaucho (Baghdad or bust!)
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To: vannrox
The same people who get real upset over this are the same ones who'd like to see us fight under the U.N.s flag.
20 posted on 03/22/2003 1:26:38 PM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace ((the original))
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