See men shredded, then say you don't back war (MUST, MUST READ!)

The Times ^ | March 18, 2003 | Ann Clwyd

[Humidston]

Have you read his homepage lately? Obscene!

[Alberta's Child]

And 99.99% of Kuwaitis had no interest in fighting off those invaders. In fact, wealthy Kuwaitis remain among the most despised people in the Islamic world because of the way they passed their time away in the nightclubs of Cairo and London while someone else came and "liberated" their country for them.

[wtc911]

Sobibor, Treblinka, Auschwitz are proven facts of history. This article proves nothing. And btw, we did not go to war with the Nazis because of the camps. If we were the kind of nation that did so then what kept us out of Stalin's USSR, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Idi Amin's Uganda, East Timor, Rwanda?

Alberta's child is right.

[tomahawk]

I don't know any Kuwaitis, but I suspect the vast majority of them disagree with you 100%.

[ez]

These atrocities though are not a cause for war. If they were then we would have to invade half of Africa, half of South America, Turkey, Iran, any other country where similar (as yet unproven) allegations have been made.

If you truly believe in inalienable rights, due process and freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, then you will agree with me that the moral position is to advocate and enable the overthrow of tyrants who abuse their power.

It is the American ideal, in it's pure form...that when a government becomes destructive of those ends, it is the right, no, the duty of the people to throw off such government.

Since we cannot invade all those countries you listed unprovoked, we should , rather , await opportunities such as Saddam has afforded us to move against them.

It may take decades, but the principle endures.

[goodnesswins]

YES! What YOU said! (Sheesh....we can't do EVERYTHING in the World, all at once!)

[Alberta's Child]

I ran into a few Kuwaitis in school here in the U.S. back at that time. They were very honest about what they were doing in the U.S.

And they were despised by the one Palestinian kid who served as a "spy" of sorts for the PLO in Israel a few years earlier.

[appalachian_dweller]

>> Yeah, sure they were. Just like those babies in Kuwaiti hospitals were thrown from their incubators to die on the cold, hard floor. I'm all weepy now. I just love being lied to in order to demonize an entire country.

What kind of sick, base, demented, M.F. sits around and thinks this stuff up? <<

How 'bout this....why don't you go on a fact-finding mission? Please, head on over to Iraq.

[ez]

And 99.99% of Kuwaitis had no interest in fighting off those invaders. In fact, wealthy Kuwaitis remain among the most despised people in the Islamic world because of the way they passed their time away in the nightclubs of Cairo and London while someone else came and "liberated" their country for them.

Non-Germane Agitprop. So Kuwaiti's are hated, now what?

[CroftonFreeper]

I am hoping Saddam and family do not choose exile. If they do, I hope we have them in sights and use high powered ordinace on there getaway bus,train or plane. I want to see these folks DEAD. Just like Osama. The hell with a trial.

[angkor]

What kind of sick, base, demented, M.F. sits around and thinks this stuff up?

You haven't been out and about in the world, have you?

I'm not going to work through the worldwide catalog of brutality that's been seen and documented in even the last 10 years, so suffice it to say that brutality is real (can you spell R-W-A-N-D-A?).

Saddam seems to have an inordinate hand in state-sponsored brutality, and it doesn't really matter whether you will or will not admit to that fact.

[headsonpikes]

The U.N. is the greatest protector of illegitimate regimes in the world.

The U.N. has essentially become the global forum for tyrants of all kinds, and France is their leading advocate now.

The worst enemy of most people is their own government.

[Alberta's Child]

Go back and look at the posts -- I'm simply trying to make a point.

[Jane_N]

hang a woman upside down by thier hair.

Seeing I have long hair and am female, I kinda got hung up on this...after several considerations i still can't work out how it is possible. How do you hang someone upside down by their hair? :)

[wtc911]

As you said, it is the right (duty) of the people to throw off such an oppressive government....the duty of those people living under that government...not our duty as America. Your ideals are noble and shared but our country has never and I'll wager will never go to war for this reason. If we have a more global cause and the targeted country is offensive to mankind in this manner as well then we will use this offensiveness to our advantage in the propaganda wars. That's the way it has always been....or do you think that we went to war with Japan because of the Rape of Nanking? I know that you don't. The point is that to argue that this article presents a reason to commit US troops to war without commiting the same to a dozen other countries ignores both history and current world real politik.

[diamond6]

This makes me want to cry. I can not believe there are so many evil people in this world.

[Amelia]

Ivan, can you email articles from the TIMES website? If so, I sure wish you'd send a copy of this to atc@npr.org to the attention of commentator Daniel Schorr....(All Things Considered at National Public Radio; yeah, I do listen to it in the car during my commute.)

He had a commentary this afternoon to the effect that Bush was warmongering and setting all sorts of unfortunate precendents, including empire-building...frosted my butt...

I'd link to the commentary, but they don't have the link up until the entire show has finished broadcasting. I can't get to the TIMES website anymore.

[MadIvan]

This article points out the duplicity of the Left. They are so very willing to paint Bush and Rumsfeld and Blair as warmongers, yet take so little care in discovering anything about who is the beneficiary of their activities. It is one part of a large tapestry of evidence which shows that Saddam is evil and by their actions, the peaceniks have chosen to stand in defence of this evil.

Regards, Ivan

[walden]

Blair's government should hire you and pay you to do what you've been doing on FR-- you're a GREAT liason keeping the alliance strong and promoting understanding between America, Britain & Europe. I'm serious-- you should look into it.