Denominations Divided Over Iraq

Family News ^ | 9/12/02 | David Brody

[ppaul]

There's a debate amongst some church denominations over a possible U.S. war against Iraq. The nation's two largest Protestant denominations are on opposing sides. It's not just Congress that's struggling with the question of whether or not to attack Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein from power. The same debate is going on in the Church.

Most of us have heard the catch phrase, "What Would Jesus Do?" When it comes to removing the Iraqi leader, some factions of the Church are split. Jim Winkler, a spokesman for the United Methodist Church, said his church's position is that Jesus would be against the attack.

"Jesus is not only our Lord and Savior, but He's the Prince of Peace and Christ really came to break old cycles of revenge and violence," Winkler said.

"I believe we stand very firmly with Christ when we say that war is not the answer to this terrible situation," Winkler said.

Dr. Richard Land, director of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, doesn't see it that way.

"Winkler needs to go back and read the 19th chapter of the Book of Revelation … where Jesus Christ comes back to conquer the forces of the anti-Christ and destroy them," Land said. "He's not just the suffering Jesus of the gospels. He's also the conquering Jesus of the book of Revelation."

Land said the Bible is pretty clear on the course of action.

"Romans 13 says that God ordained the civil magistrate to punish those who do evil and to reward those who do what is right, and one of the basic responsibilities of God-ordained government is to protect its citizens," he said.

It's a debate that not only the Church is engaged in, but the entire country as well. The answer is coming soon.

President Bush would like Congress to approve a resolution authorizing force before Congress recesses in early October. He made the case for deposing Saddam Hussein in a Thursday speech to the the United Nations General Assembly.

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Land said the Bible is pretty clear on the course of action.

Crystal clear.

[LiteKeeper]

The most frequently mentioned occupation in the New Testament is the Centurian, and not once does Jesus condemn them. Certainly, Romans 13 is quite applicable here!

[lexington minuteman 1775]

Actually I believe Winkler and Land are BOTH right. Because they are using proof texts to support thier point.That is one of the amazing things about Scripture.But if we follow that text in Romans 13 to its conclusion then we have to support the governments action, which in this case will be the invasion of Iraq.This is NOT the book of Revelation.Jesus is not leading our troops.But WE ALL should certainly pray for thier safety.And we will prevail.Is that God's will? Well i believe it is because the muslim faith is a false religion based on a moon god who is married to a sun goddess, which is why all those minarets have the crescent moon on them. And as Christians we are called on to battle evil.And both Sadaam and the al queda are evil.So as a member of the body of Christ.I say we go get the little buggers!Amen!

[ZGuy]

My sister and then I left the Methodist Social Club years ago. When the pastor asked why she was leaving, she said, "Because I've become a Christian" and his response was, "OK. Well, that makes sense then."

[chemainus]

Jim Winkler, a spokesman for the United Methodist Church, said his church's position is that Jesus would be against the attack....Methodists long ago adopted the mantle of International Socialism...they praise the suicide bombers and the Africans and Kofi Annan and denigrate the United States every chance they get....I became disgusted with the United Methodist Church when they ran their Sunday School Monthly indoctrination booklets for the primary children with a picture of MLK with the headline blasting Martin Luther King Is Just Like Jesus..... yeah and all my Jewish brethren are going to do a Pilgrimage to Mecca

[AdamsPapers]

One visit to the WCC ( a UN NGO )website will reveal quite a bit of information on how denominations will line up on the attack issue. http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/who/mch-e.html

A list of member churches follows:

NORTH AMERICA
African Methodist Episcopal Church [USA]
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church [USA]
American Baptist Churches in the USA
Anglican Church of Canada
Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East, N.A. Diocese
Canadian Council of Churches**
Canadian Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Canada
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Christian Methodist Episcopal Church [USA]
Church of the Brethren [USA]
Episcopal Church
Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church Abroad [Canada]
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada
Hungarian Reformed Church in America
International Council of Community Churches [USA]
International Evangelical Church [USA]
Moravian Church in America (Northern Province)
Moravian Church in America (Southern Province)
National Baptist Convention of America
National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc.
National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA**
Orthodox Church in America
Polish National Catholic Church
Presbyterian Church in Canada
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc. [USA]
Reformed Church in America [USA]
Religious Society of Friends [USA] - Friends General Conference - Friends United Meeting
United Church of Canada
United Church of Christ [USA]
United Methodist Church [USA]

You will not see the Southern Baptist Convention listed on that page. The next time you need to see where a denomination will lean on any tough subjects like immigration or abortion, just look up this link to see which are members in good standing of a "Global" organization.

To add insult to injury, the even brag about "First group of ecumenical accompaniers begin work in Palestine and Israel" as if they were really two separate entities.

Look up your denomination. Go ahead, I dare you. Then try to see if you can see a pattern of indoctrination in the teachings of your local church.

[kezekiel]

Look up your denomination. Go ahead, I dare you. Then try to see if you can see a pattern of indoctrination in the teachings of your local church.

No Assemblies of God in that list. My pastor and I are all for prosecuting this war to the hilt.

[TXBubba]

"Methodist Social Club". You sure have that one nailed! We have friends in that group.

They had a Buddist Priest come lead their Sunday A.M. service one Sunday. Not come have a talk in regard to learning about other religions but rather have the whole worship time.

Then when we asked if they saw our son's picture in the paper when we counter-protested the "eco-terrorists" here in Austin we got a truly hateful response questioning OUR Christianity! They were very proud that their church put up a white cross for every victim of the World Trade Center bombings. I bit my tongue rather than ask how those killed who weren't Christians might have thought of that?

Now I have other family members who are conservative Methodists. I think the social club ones are in the big cities as opposed to the small towns.

[AdamsPapers]

No Nazarenes either. Most of the fundamentalist types that are always getting blasted in the press are not on the list.

However, some time ago I was trying to line up several volunteers from local churches to organize a combined anti-abortion rally, I met staunch resistance from local pastors. They did not want me to approach their congregations about a local abortion mill. The pastors did not even want me to mail their office a package to look over themselves. When I suggested that I lived in their neighborhood, and could drop by and discuss the one time rally, they always had another place to be.

I'm a computer guy, not a full time activist. I was just concerned about the local women's center killing women. Boy did I get an education about how things work in America. I knew, with a long line of pastors in my lineage, that getting someone to stand in the gap was not an easy task. However, they acted like having a brochure speaking out against abortion was like touching a vile and unclean thing.

That's when I started trying to figure out why. When I saw in the paper something about the Methodists speaking at a forum in the United Nations, something clicked. I started to see the "global" in their "local" message. I no longer attend the Methodist church...

[The Grammarian]

[C]onservative Methodists

Check out the Confessing Movement Within the UMC. We make up about one-eighth of the constituency, and still growing. See also The Good News movement. God hasn't had done with the People Called Methodists yet!

[Paleo Conservative]

I wonder what drugs the members and clergy of these mainlining denominations are taking.

[ZULU]

"Most of us have heard the catch phrase, "What Would Jesus Do?"

Jesus isn't President of the United States, and a nation isn't an individual. What we do on our own initiative is beween us and God. The primary business of the state, however, is its survival and the defense of its citizens and their property, not the propagation of a religious doctrine.

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's.

Once again the idiots of the United Methodist Church demonstrate their presence in the forefront of the ranks of lunacy. We can expect similar blather from the Presbyterians, Epsicopalians and Catholics. Its a good thing the followers of these beliefs in former days had a more rational approach to life or the U.S. would not have existed.

[ZGuy]

I've heard that there are some actual Christian Methodist churches in the south. That's good. Will the voice of "the remnant" be heard though? Or will it eventually end up in a separation? Sounds like you've got quite an uphill battle. Keep the faith.

[ohioman]

Well as a Southern Baptist myself, its doesn't surprise me that the Baptist Church is behind the President. The only folks the Methodists seem to be totally behind anymore are the pro-soddomite crowd.

[pankot]

Winkler does not speak for the UM Church--only the General Conference can.

[CyberCowboy777]

I tell you what, I am more and more impressed with the Southern Baptist Convention.

Courage, Conviction and uncompromising Truth.

[MarMema]

Orthodox Church in America

Dream on. Orthodox civilizations have killed more islamic warriors than Christians of any other faith over time.

We are killing them in chechnya and the Orthodox priests of Russia are blessing the tanks as they head out to war. We are hopefully still eliminating them in Bosnia and Kosovo. We have fought them in Kosovo before and way back in Constantinople as well.

That said, there are Orthodox Christians in Iraq and I know we are concerned about them. It is my belief that the meeting Bush held with the Orthodox Church leaders a few months back was about this very thing. I only hope they have been evacuated somehow. How would you feel about bombing members of your own church? We just did it in Serbia and it's not fun for us......
After that, I have no problem with the war on Iraq going forward. I don't think our church does either, since in the memorial address on 9-11-2002 our leader said "The horrific events of September 11th mark a turning point in our lives and in the lives of so many throughout the world. With zeal and conviction we must work together in reassuring ourselves and the world that these events do not have the last word."

[Citizen Tom Paine]

In the Bible, governments are allowed to act one way; individuals another. Governments may use the sword (presumably to kill) to protect their citizens.