A Reflection on Apostasy

The Diocese Report/DRBlog ^ | Wednesday, August 14, 2002 | Brian Mershon

[narses]

Ping.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

"The tail of the devil is functioning in the disintegration of the Catholic world. The darkness of Satan has entered and spread throughout the Catholic Church even to its summit. Apostasy, the loss of the faith, is spreading throughout the world and into the highest levels within the Church." Pope Paul VI, October 13, 1977, Address on the Sixtieth Anniversary of the Fatima Apparitions.

Well, I guess when you finally lose faith in the Church, there's always Jesus. :^D

[galt-jw]

read vaticanII? try the Bible. You dont need some God franchise to sell you salvation for a tithe and absolution. The Work is done. Get over it. Man can do nothing else. Live.

[ultima ratio]

Thanks for posting this. This new statement by the bishops puts everything we've been saying the past few weeks in a totally fresh perspective. It is so clearly a radical new doctrine.

[TomSmedley]

Well, I guess when you finally lose faith in the Church, there's always Jesus. :^D

ex-RC bump ...

Still, the original poster does have a valid point: if salvation is to be found outside of Jesus Christ, then why bother being Christian? Other faiths permit the potent narcotic of self-righteousness and autosoteriology. I'm reminded of Romans 10:1-3, where the apostle speaks of those who, eager to establish their own righteousness, denigrate the righteousness of God in/through/by Jesus.

[jjm2111]

The catholic church getting to be too much these days. I'm going to convert and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior. Trouble is which church to join.

[ultima ratio]

What makes you think this wasn't always the case with those in the Church? Do you suppose devout Catholics don't turn to Jesus daily? If you suppose this, you do not appreciate the faith they practice, despite the hijacking of their Church hierarchy by modernists and heretics.

[ladyinred]

The doctrine that tickles the ear is spreading, and a new form of PC is taking over every area of our lives.

[narses]

Yes, I fear exactly that.

[babyface00]

"The catholic church getting to be too much these days. I'm going to convert and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior. Trouble is which church to join."

If your Catholic and you haven't accepted Jesus as your savior, than something's not right, despite what Protestants would insinuate. (no offense meant to Protestants, but a lot of what they say about the RC church is bunk and fluff)

I'm RC, but I've seriously looked into the Orthodox church. It's the only church other than RC who can claim any historical ancestry to the early church. The schism occurred before both Inquisitions and the Crusades, so they don't have the "blood on their hands" most non-RC Christians attribute to Catholicism.

However, its not as easy as just show up, have faith, and read the Bible. Anyone familiar with the traditions of the Catholic church (especially pre VaticanII) compared to the vast majority of Protestant churches will find the Orthodox church on the other end of the spectrum, past the Catholics.

Strangely enough, the Orthodox faith is pretty darn close to that of the RC church (minus the Pope).

[berned]

Evangelical Christians believe, from the Bible, that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will come when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah. That is the "trigger" that Jesus is waiting for before He chooses to return.

If you were Satan, what would be your strategy to prevent this? It's not too difficult to formulate one...

First of all, kill all the Jews (via Inquisition and Nazi Holocaust) . Okay, that didn't work...

Next, prevent the re-creation of Israel as a nation, via Pope Pius XII applying political pressure to FDR to NOT let Israel come back to their Biblical Homeland (Here's the link to Pius's letter to FDR --

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/dodone/Pius.html

Okay THAT didn't work... Then, as a last resort, at all costs, keep the Jews from accepting Jesus as their Messiah. by convincing them that they don't NEED to. That's what the Roman Catholic Church is up to nowadays.

The pattern is grossly obvious, but to point it out is to be flamed as a "Catholic-hating bigot".

[AnalogReigns]

I've seriously looked into the Orthodox church. It's the only church other than RC who can claim any historical ancestry to the early church.

I know as a Roman Catholic you probably won't agree, but all Protestant churches claim an "historical ancestry" to the early church. The earliest reformers of the 16th Century sincerely sought using the best scholarship of the day, to return the Church to its earliest theological and organizational roots--which by 1500 was very different from AD 100. Those first reformers were thrown out of the Roman church by the very corrupt leadership of the time (the corruption of which is now fully acknowledged by scholars, Roman or not...) and yet they sought hard to REFORM not revolutionize Jesus' Church.

While it is true organizationally only the Orthodox (and perhaps the Egyptian Copts too...) can trace an unbroken lineage of "apostolic succession" like the Roman church... it WAS broken, from Rome...just like those Protestants were later. Even the apostolic succession thing isn't totally exclusive--as recall that Henry VIII's Anglican church kept the same people in power taken from Rome--and can be said to have had that apostolic succession ever since.

St. Augustine's arguments against the Donatists ca. AD 400 pretty well eliminated the vital importance of succession anyway--proving all believers receive grace from Christ Himself--and an unbroken line of godly priests (however desirable that may be...) is not required for our salvation.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

No, I don't suppose that. And my comment was somewhat toungue in cheek. Somewhat. Having grown up in RC Church (St Thomas Moore, Portland, OR) I can attest to my comment. Some will know what I mean, some will likely be offended.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Yep, valid point.

[j.havenfarm]

A nice slection, but you forgot examples of smug, sanctimonious, and self-righteous. On the other hand, since those underlie all the posts you link, maybe you really have covered the waterfront.

[widowithfoursons]

LOL! Just what command tells us to follow the church? Follow Christ.