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Will the War Kill the Bill of Rights?
Cato Institute ^ | October 18, 2001 | David Kopel

Posted on 10/23/2001 8:48:28 AM PDT by sendtoscott

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1 posted on 10/23/2001 8:48:28 AM PDT by sendtoscott
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"Both the House and the Senate bills grant vast powers to law enforcement that have nothing to do with counter-terrorism."

Any body getting the Drift out there?

2 posted on 10/23/2001 8:55:20 AM PDT by rdavis84
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To: sendtoscott
There were many here who were UPSET that this anti-liberty bill wasn't passed sooner.
3 posted on 10/23/2001 9:06:14 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: sendtoscott
Will the War Kill the Bill of Rights?

Only if we allow it.
And definitely not necessary.

We just need to establish that it applies only to citizens who did not become so fraudulently (by swearing a false oath).
And any children of "false" citizens born here similarly are aliens.

The Bill of Rights should not protect foreign diplomatic personnel, tourists, students, people in transit or illegals.

4 posted on 10/23/2001 9:07:58 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: rdavis84
The war has already destroyed the Bill Of Rights and the Constitution. But don't worry - nothing going on here- move along. Perhaps we should just go buy something.
5 posted on 10/23/2001 9:10:46 AM PDT by steve50
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: steve50
"Perhaps we should just go buy something."

Remember Wal-Mart's "Made in America" campaign that lasted about a month? We could buy some "stuff" there, that'd be Patriotic.

Or a Car!!! They're showing American Flags and spouting how they're just trying to get 'merica, or is it Amexica, moving again.

I believe China is set up to make Buicks now.(seriously) ;-)

7 posted on 10/23/2001 9:31:19 AM PDT by rdavis84
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To: sendtoscott
The Senate bill allows the government to conduct secret searches. This measure is not limited to terrorism cases. Rather, it would apply to federal government searches involving drugs, pornography, gambling, and everything else in the federal criminal code.

This is the time bomb in the current legislation. Passed ostensibly for terrorism, eventually used for everything under the sun.

When you read "... and for other purposes ..." in legislation, beware. This overlooked little phrase explains how legislation passed supposedly for purpose A, eventually gets used for purpose B, C, D, E, ... X, Y, Z.

It is the sleight-of-hand magician's trick that has fooled lawmakers and the populace for decades.

While the solid majority of federal law enforcement agents are honorable, some are not.

... and their bosses are more corrupt. Those who make the policies agents follow are the real criminals.

8 posted on 10/23/2001 9:34:36 AM PDT by gpk9
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To: rdavis84
Many here on Free Republic believe the Bill of Rights has been under constant attack for the last 225 years and I'm of those who agree with that belief. But no one that I know of, in, or out of government, has any plans to kill rights granted by this portion of the US Constitution. Them's fighting words!

OTOH, if you haven't noticed, America is at war against international terrorism. Certain actions by the federal gov't are necessary in order to obtain the intelligence required to fight the war on terrorism. I for one would rather stretch the limits today and thereby protect our rights, freedoms and liberty in the long term.

BTW, the last time I looked, an individual American's "politics, hobbies, and even sexual orientation", are generally not considered behavior that is consistent with law breaking activities. If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be afraid. Those forces fighting terrorism are looking for sympathizers and supporters who are aligned with subversive groups that engage in espionage and/or sabotage within America's national borders and those defenses of our international interests.

This is no time to over react and allow fear to control our lives.

9 posted on 10/23/2001 9:35:41 AM PDT by Reagan Man
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To: Publius6961
Only if we allow it

Just how are "we" going to stop it. My Kongressmen and senators pay absolutely no attention to anything I write, although I usually get a form letter back which says something to the effect that "I understand your concerns and will take them into account", but they go ahead and vote for more restrictions and ignore the Bill of Rights (kind of like the attitude of a number of people on this forum).

10 posted on 10/23/2001 9:41:34 AM PDT by from occupied ga
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To: Reagan Man
If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be afraid

Will we be hearing this same phrase once someone decides to outlaw our firearms or, when someone decides that all of our guns must be registered? Surprisingly, no one raised a peep when the gov. decided to "register" our children (reportedly to stop "welfare" and income tax fraud) so the old thinking that people won't register their guns, no matter what, is pretty idiotic when one stops to think about it. I suppose, when that time comes, that people will still be saying "but if you've registered your guns, you don't have anything to worry about" - right up until the point that the BATF knocks on the door demanding that we hand them over.

Honestly, I don't want to be confrontational about this. I just want everyone to REALLY stop and think about the POTENTIAL for abuse of all these "powers".

11 posted on 10/23/2001 9:46:18 AM PDT by KentuckyWoman
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To: Reagan Man
BTW, the last time I looked, an individual American's "politics, hobbies, and even sexual orientation", are generally not considered behavior that is consistent with law breaking activities

Prior to the gun bans in the Peoples' Democracy of Kalifornia, what kind of firearm you owned was not considered "law breaking activities" by the PDK now it is.

The restrictions only go one way. Getting the tyranny in Washington to undo some restriction requires a miracle. You should never give the SOBs in DC anything, because 1. You'll never get it back, and 2. what they promise in return is worthless.

12 posted on 10/23/2001 9:47:56 AM PDT by from occupied ga
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To: KentuckyWoman
If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be afraid.

Well it didn't take long for someone to find an objection to this phrase. You win the prize. Whatever that may be.

It is important for all American's to remain vigilant during these uncertain days in the war against terrorism. It is also important for American's to remain vigilant when it comes to the abuse of power by the federal government.

President Bush supports the right of American's to purchase and own firearms. I'm living proof of that. As I said, this is no time to over react, but your points are well taken.

13 posted on 10/23/2001 9:55:48 AM PDT by Reagan Man
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To: from occupied ga
"Just how are "we" going to stop it. My Kongressmen and senators pay absolutely no attention to anything I write, although I usually get a form letter back which says something to the effect that "I understand your concerns and will take them into account", but they go ahead and vote for more restrictions and ignore the Bill of Rights (kind of like the attitude of a number of people on this forum)."

You'd think that the average, not yet totally dumbed down, person would have identified the new method of governance. It's called "In Your Face, We're The Government, You are NOT!" method.

Our form of government worked fine as long as there were BASIC ethics, morals, scruples, etc. instilled in the future leaders as youths. We're past that now. Excerpt for the few Throwbacks like Ron Paul, we're re-electing "Parties" with socially elite Actors as their fronts. They are for the most part born and bred to the jobs. Any encroachment on that system is viciously whipped down.

14 posted on 10/23/2001 10:03:06 AM PDT by rdavis84
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To: from occupied ga
Sometimes in America, we walk that fine line of protecting our Constitutional rights and protecting the personal lives of ourselves and our loved ones through the necessity for a certain level of security. This is one of those times that we need to assure the security of American's, in order to achieve the overall goals of the Bush Doctrine in the war on international terrorism.

Let's remember, if your dead, your rights mean absolutely nothing. And let's leave ole Ben Franklin out of this one. Okay?!

15 posted on 10/23/2001 10:09:43 AM PDT by Reagan Man
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To: rdavis84
I was thinking Foodland, get one of those 50 cent plastic made in China flags on a plastic made in China stick, and only $13.95. I guess all my economics classes were wrong, you don't have to actually make anything to have a prosperous economy, just create a 'tech bubble" and tax the H3ll out of it.
16 posted on 10/23/2001 10:22:41 AM PDT by steve50
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To: Reagan Man
And let's leave ole Ben Franklin out of this one. Okay?!

Why? Do you think he was wrong? I happen to think that those who give up freedom to Washington for the promise of security really will have neither. Washington will take the freedom. I think that we are both in agreement on this. Unfortunately, it will not provide security. The federal government in all of its money grubbing and restrict this ban that glory failed completely to protect its citizens Was this failure because we don't live in a fascist police state like the former Deutsches Democratic Republic? Not likely. It's because what the government always does is strip its citizens of property and render them defenseless (the better to strip them of their property). The so-called increased security for passenger flights is nothing more than harrassment. Arming the pilots (which would work) is not being considered. Instead the military will kill everyone on a suspect aircraft. Your government in action. Render you defenseless and prey to terrorists, and then kill you if the terrorists victimize you

This is one of those times that we need to assure the security of American's, in order to achieve the overall goals of the Bush Doctrine in the war on international terrorism.

What no one has stated is exactly how taking a few more giant steps on the road to totalitarianism is going to make anyone safer. The Russians lived in a totalitarian state after WWI and Stalin kill 40,000,000 of them. The Jews in Europe during WWII lived under a totalitarian state, and Hitler killed 7,000,000. Pol Pot ran a totalitarian state in Cambodia and 2,000,000 died

Let's remember, if your dead, your rights mean absolutely nothing. And let's leave ole Ben Franklin out of this one. Okay?!

17 posted on 10/23/2001 10:32:23 AM PDT by from occupied ga
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To: Reagan Man
You win the prize
Oh GOODY!!!!

You're correct that we do not need to over-react in our current situation. I fear that the time to have over-reacted is long past, right about the time the government decided it had the power to regulate what kind of firearms we (as "the People") could own, right about the time that it decided it could tell us where to send our children during certain years at threat of arrest (k-12) and right about the time they decided it was okay to kill unborn children for convenience. Compared to those things, what we are facing now is inconsequental.

18 posted on 10/23/2001 10:34:50 AM PDT by KentuckyWoman
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To: from occupied ga
ARRGH hit post instead of preview

Let's remember, if your dead, your rights mean absolutely nothing.

This is irrelevant. If you are alive and in a death camp your rights don't mean anything either. If you are alive and a slave you don't have much in the way of rights either. There are those who would die for freedom, and still see the biggest threat to freedom as our own government, not some other terrorist organization

19 posted on 10/23/2001 10:37:12 AM PDT by from occupied ga
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To: steve50
"I guess all my economics classes were wrong, you don't have to actually make anything to have a prosperous economy, just create a 'tech bubble" and tax the H3ll out of it."

My Wife and I had our comment on the "Tech Bubble" when it started. We were trying to figure out what "Yahoo" was going to make to generate revenue. Best we could tell at that time was that it was a Search Engine.

We decided it was a "Seinfield" routine; like his "start a TV Show about Nothing" segment. Lots of that happened :-)

I'm from the Old School, we made "widgets" for the Auto Industry!

20 posted on 10/23/2001 10:43:38 AM PDT by rdavis84
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