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New York times Nicholas Kristof "What Have We Liberals Done to the West Coast?"
New York times ^ | 15th June 2024 | Nicholas Kristof

Posted on 06/15/2024 9:24:15 PM PDT by Cronos

As Democrats make their case to voters around the country this fall, one challenge is that some of the bluest parts of the country — cities on the West Coast — are a mess.

Centrist voters can reasonably ask: Why put liberals in charge nationally when the places where they have greatest control are plagued by homelessness, crime and dysfunction?

I’ll try to answer that question in a moment, but liberals like me do need to face the painful fact that something has gone badly wrong where we’re in charge, from San Diego to Seattle.

...the truth is that too often we offer a version of progressivism that doesn’t result in progress. ...Democratic states enjoy a life expectancy two years longer than Republican states. Per capita G.D.P. in Democratic states is 29 percent higher than in G.O.P. states, and child poverty is lower. Education is generally better in blue states, with more kids graduating from high school and college. The gulf in well-being between blue states and red states is growing wider, not narrower.

So my rejoinder to Republican critiques is: Yes, governance is flawed in some blue parts of America, but overall, liberal places have enjoyed faster economic growth and higher living standards than conservative places. That doesn’t look like failure.

So the problem isn’t with liberalism. It’s with West Coast liberalism.

...the West Coast’s central problem is not so much that it’s unserious as that it’s infected with an ideological purity that is focused more on intentions than on oversight and outcomes.

...Maybe a healthy Republican Party keeps the Democratic Party healthy, and vice versa.

Without opposition party oversight, problems aren’t always fixed expeditiously.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California; US: New York; US: Oregon; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: 1619project; blackkk; blackliesmanors; blackliesmatter; blacklivesmatter; blather; blm; bluestateexodus; california; californication; corrupticrats; criticalracetheory; crt; cya; demagogicparty; durablemajority; ecoterrorism; ecoterrorists; figleaf; gavinnewsom; genderdysphoria; globalwarminghoax; greennewdeal; hollywood; homosexualagenda; kamalaharris; kristof; losangeles; marxisttyranny; nancypelosi; newscum; newsom; newsomfornia; newyork; newyorkcity; newyorkslimes; newyorktimes; nicholaskristof; oregon; sandiego; sanfrancisco; seattle; singlepartyrule; singlepartystate; singlepartystates; washington
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1 posted on 06/15/2024 9:24:15 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

A good comment on the article

“As a foreigner, I typically refrained from commenting on US domestic politics during my time in the country. When Americans asked me if Singapore was authoritarian or why it had banned chewing gum (the usual tropes), I would just smile politely and give a diplomatic answer.

One thing I never understood was the inability - or immaturity - of some to realise that there are other things that are important that are not freedom. Lee Kuan Yew once said if you asked a person in a developing country what they wanted it would be low crime and safety, running water and electricity and food for their family to eat.

But there is a very American tendency to overindex on freedom. Today, there are indicators on which the US ranks on par with certain developing countries (infant mortality and life expectancy are worse than in Cuba which endured sanctions for decades). But at least there’s freedom I suppose.

Also, freedom can encompass far more than freedom of speech and assembly: what about the freedom to return home safely? To send kids to school knowing they’ll be safe? Democratic freedoms are a worthy ideal but we need to stop pretending democracy is everything and devoid of any flaws. It can be hijacked easily by self-interested groups which resist positive change. Some institutional frameworks are also needed to ensure societal order and progress. As Singapore’s former Deputy Prime Minister said: outcomes are ensured through policies and mechanisms not speeches.”

That guy gets it, what about the freedom to not be robbed?


2 posted on 06/15/2024 9:27:40 PM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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To: Cronos

Those problems our with the East Coast, as well.

NYC, Baltimore, etc. All are S-holes.


3 posted on 06/15/2024 9:27:58 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: Cronos

1. Most leftists in the west coast are parasites from the east and midwest.

2. The idea that cities like Dallas and Houston and New York and Miami are conservative paradises is laughable.


4 posted on 06/15/2024 9:30:04 PM PDT by pigeoninthepark
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To: Cronos

Self driving cars could go a long way towards fixing it provided they can be perfected. People would get rid of their own and the uber driver will not need to get paid anymore. Insurance-not needed. Fewer cars parked on the street to get broken into. They’d have to be gas powered. No highway patrol needed. I’d be awesome.


5 posted on 06/15/2024 9:31:18 PM PDT by DIRTYSECRET
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To: Cronos

NYC is the wurst....

It’s not just Gruesome’s lair.


6 posted on 06/15/2024 9:33:37 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: DIRTYSECRET

Right now self driving technology works best on highways, regular streets still have a long way to go.


7 posted on 06/15/2024 9:34:43 PM PDT by pigeoninthepark
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To: Cronos

I want the freedom to fill my truck with 100% pure gasoline at any gas station in the USA.


8 posted on 06/15/2024 9:36:44 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Cronos
Education is generally better in blue states, with more kids graduating from high school and college

Pure BS. Graduating card-carrying communists from high school and college is not "education." It's a breeze to get a degree in worthless "studies" that lead nowhere in real life.

I'd wager you find a higher fraction of kids graduating in Red states with solid degrees in demand by employers or trade-school graduates who are in high demand and make excellent wages.

Your purple-haired, nose-ringed, tatted-up graduate in gender studies screaming "From the river to the sea" at a Blue state university MIGHT be able to flip burgers after graduating. But those jobs are disappearing because the Blue states have mandated burger flippers get $20/hour.

9 posted on 06/15/2024 9:36:54 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom (“When exposing a crime is treated like a crime, you are being ruled by criminals” – Edward Snowden)
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To: Cronos

The freedom to protect yourself is #1. Thomas Jefferson carefully laid out “Life, Liberty and the PURSUIT of Happiness” in that order in the Declaration of Independence. If you aren’t secure in your life (self-protection), you cannot have liberty. Without liberty, you cannot pursue happiness.

Everything flows from being safe in your person which leads to the right to self defense and 2A.


10 posted on 06/15/2024 9:40:17 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom (“When exposing a crime is treated like a crime, you are being ruled by criminals” – Edward Snowden)
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To: Cronos

On par with the third world like Cuba!

Infant mortality rate is due to trying to give birth to the most difficult pregnancies on earth.

Obesity or abundance is the cause of lowered life expectancy.

Both of which are the opposite of like the third world.

Imagine be4lieving Cuba is superior in any way, shape or form.

Leftists and uniformed foreigners like the Singaporean who’s healthcare system my tax dollars subsidize should educate themselves.

The author can extol the virtues of big government liberal socialism while for 20yrs, 1000 people a day have moved from blue to red states.


11 posted on 06/15/2024 9:41:46 PM PDT by Freest Republican (There is no tyranny that cannot be justified by imbeciles)
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To: Cronos
Democratic states enjoy a life expectancy two years longer than Republican states.

Not if you include the aborted.

12 posted on 06/15/2024 9:46:03 PM PDT by cockroach_magoo (No one is above the law, but some are more above the law than others.)
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To: Cronos
So my rejoinder to Republican critiques is: Yes, governance is flawed in some blue parts of America, but overall, liberal places have enjoyed faster economic growth and higher living standards than conservative places.

So define *higher standard of living*.

Because the condition of SF and LA don't look like higher standards of living to me.

That would be a HUGE step down for rural flyover country folks like me.

Besides, I don't believe their life expectancy is higher. Living in city is neither safe nor stress free both of which work massively against longevity.

13 posted on 06/15/2024 9:50:37 PM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus…)
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To: Cronos

I’m too lazy and do not care enough but highly doubt the life expectancy in blue states is 2yrs longer comparing apples to apples.

Generally speaking in the modern era, inner city pollution offsets proximity to state of the art of medical care in life expectancy, resulting in a wash.

I suspect that is a completely fraudulent statistic.

fwiw I’ve asked leftists for decades about why folks are fleeing instead of stampeding to the wonderfulness of big govt liberal socialism to no avail.

The answers were always anything but economic. The moving companies have since surveyed folks and the top two answers were jobs, economic opportunities. I think Krugman still goes with AC and retirees.


14 posted on 06/15/2024 9:54:57 PM PDT by Freest Republican (There is no tyranny that cannot be justified by imbeciles)
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To: Cronos
So the problem isn’t with liberalism. It’s with West Coast liberalism.

What a putz.

15 posted on 06/15/2024 9:56:15 PM PDT by HIDEK6 (God bless Donald Trump)
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To: Cronos
infant mortality and life expectancy are worse than in Cuba

Always be careful of infant mortality statistics. The US follows the one breath rule. If the baby takes one breath and then dies it counts as an infant death. In some countries that would count the same as a miscarriage. I've heard that some even go as long as a month If you don't count deaths in the first month, infant mortality and life expectancy will be higher.

Sorry, I don't have the sites to back that up. I think I saw it back during the Obamacare debate where leftists were pointing out how much better socialized medicine was and the counter arguments came out warning about leftist statistics.

16 posted on 06/15/2024 9:56:51 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Democrats' version of MAGA: Making America the Gulag Archipelago. Now with "Formal Deprogramming")
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To: metmom

You could live in a big city your whole life and never encounter any crime.

Meanwhile I have driven through rural areas where people at the gas stations and diners will tell me to keep driving past X and Y areas otherwise I become a victim of meth zombies or self-sovereign types who will shoot from their trailer homes right at your passing vehicle.


17 posted on 06/15/2024 9:56:59 PM PDT by pigeoninthepark
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To: pigeoninthepark

*Right now self driving technology works best on highways, regular streets still have a long way to go.*

I saw it in Phoenix. Heard it’s working in SF. Both are crowded. If it works in those places it’s gotta be on the up and up. If they kill one person the whole idea will go the way of Solyndra.


18 posted on 06/15/2024 10:05:38 PM PDT by DIRTYSECRET
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To: Cronos

“That guy gets it, what about the freedom to not be robbed?”

——————————————————

Both on the street and at the paycheck.


19 posted on 06/15/2024 10:07:20 PM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: pigeoninthepark

ANYTHING is possible, technically.

Is it likely? Not by a long shot.

Or have you not been reading the news of late? Because I see no reduction in crime in cities, only allegedly in crime rates, which is due to lack of arrests and enforcement, IOW, the police in going after criminals.

If you ignore crime, it doesn’t get reported and voila`, the crime rate is *down*.


20 posted on 06/15/2024 10:08:21 PM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus…)
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