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[What's the biggest problem? Population collapse or cultural collapse?] Geert Wilders and Elon Musk exchange views about population collapse.
Twitter | January 2023 | wilders, Musk

Posted on 01/17/2024 10:50:01 AM PST by aspasia

wilders1

wilders2


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: birthrate
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1 posted on 01/17/2024 10:50:01 AM PST by aspasia
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To: aspasia

I would argue the population collapse in many countries is DIRECTLY related to their cultural collapse.

You get the morals, social values and cultures right....

Everything will follow.


2 posted on 01/17/2024 10:54:45 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (A truth that’s told with bad intent, Beats all the lies you can invent ~ Wm. Blake)
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To: aspasia

America had enough people in 1970 and could do just fine with its own population and its own natural growth/stability rate.

It was immigration that destroyed us and we have not seen anything yet as there is no intention to end it, which probably isn’t even possible with this last 100 million new voters.


3 posted on 01/17/2024 10:55:13 AM PST by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: All

With a better culture you wouldn’t have to worry about a population collapse.


4 posted on 01/17/2024 10:55:29 AM PST by escapefromboston (Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.)
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To: aspasia

I do understand that having a “top heavy” population is hard. If you have a lot of old people (who need benefits and support but who may no longer be actively contributing labor) and if you have a much smaller number of young productive workers (paying taxes so that others can receive benefits), that’s difficult.

But I believe a society can manage that sort of demographic shift. With proper expectations and value shifts, a pretty fair deal could be made available to the young and the old. And the problem is transient. In thirty years, things will be different.

My much shorter answer: I am not convinced that a declining population (which is the same as an aging population) is such an awful problem.

But I do think that a cultural collapse is something that can literally take centuries to recover from. America is particular is a unique phenomenon. Our culture was built on individual freedom and responsibility and limited government. That’s special. If we lose that (and we probably have) the world will not see it return for perhaps 1000 years.


5 posted on 01/17/2024 10:57:03 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: aspasia
And I remember how excited, as young people, that the birth control pill was widely available.

Now, not so much.

6 posted on 01/17/2024 10:57:10 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (I didn't mis-gender you, You did!)
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To: aspasia
It's both. The developed world isn't making babies. Worse still, the western portion of the developed world is "educating" itself away from honoring the values it has that makes life better.

Meanwhile, the undeveloped world is making the most babies to outnumber the developed world. And they don't seem to hold dear to core values we embraced in eras like our First Great Awakening and Second Great Awakening.

7 posted on 01/17/2024 10:57:27 AM PST by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Could be. African increase in population directly related to their cultural what?


8 posted on 01/17/2024 10:59:23 AM PST by aspasia
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To: aspasia

Population collapse in the Arab world in Africa is essential to the survival of mankind


9 posted on 01/17/2024 11:00:03 AM PST by montag813
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To: montag813

Population control is evil.


10 posted on 01/17/2024 11:03:07 AM PST by aspasia
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To: Taxman

ping


11 posted on 01/17/2024 11:10:41 AM PST by Taxman ((SAVE AMERICA! VOTE REPUBLICAN IN 2024! SAVE AMERICA!))
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To: aspasia

Geert knows his stuff. He knows the facts because he has been at it for a long time.

In this case, both guys are right.

We need far fewer migrants and we need far more births of western nation’s natural people.


12 posted on 01/17/2024 11:21:41 AM PST by dforest
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To: aspasia

You can easily argue couples in the West, not wanting to bring children into this screwed up world, are behaving rationally. We may see a population collapse of sane societies but hordes of violent barbarians are populating like crazy.

Third world trash apparently don’t give much thought to the future of their children in a world in chaos.


13 posted on 01/17/2024 11:30:16 AM PST by Gnome1949
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To: Responsibility2nd
"Remember, what people do with their pelvic organs behind closed doors is nobody else's business!"

(The above is what we technically call "A lie that is fatal to civilization in the long term.")

14 posted on 01/17/2024 11:33:13 AM PST by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: aspasia

Yes it’s evil, but so is providing hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Muslim world in Africa.


15 posted on 01/17/2024 11:34:14 AM PST by montag813
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To: ansel12
I disagree. It was not immigrants (illegal or not) who showed up preaching the dogmas of marxism, secular humanism, materialism and so on, that have led to the culture of self-extermination. While they may have traded ideas across borders, the self-destruction has been led from within.

I suggest people stop worrying (much) about poor Salvadorans and Venezuelans showing up at the border, and spend a lot more time dealing with the malevolence that is bred here within the borders. That's a 100X worse in the long run.

16 posted on 01/17/2024 11:46:53 AM PST by EnderWiggin1970
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To: EnderWiggin1970

Well, yes, but the immigration problem is something we could deal with and did deal with during Trump’s term. Long-term cultural decline is a lot harder to fix.


17 posted on 01/17/2024 11:53:47 AM PST by x
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To: EnderWiggin1970

Wow, that displays incredible ignorance of the effects of immigration on America.

Take one example, California, do you think the white Californians suddenly reversed their politics and that is how we lost California?

What do you think the left means when they say Texas is falling and will fall? do you think that is because they are going to change the minds of the Texans that are there today?


18 posted on 01/17/2024 11:55:29 AM PST by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: Campion

I used to have this as my tagline:

What you do behind closed doors is my business.

I would explain (if necessary) that the actions of degenerate people can and do influence the actions and the direction of a society.

As we know, we see the actions done behind closed doors have taken that slippery slope to actions in public.

John Adams said, “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” Morality and virtue are the foundation of our republic and necessary for a society to be free.

Is it any wonder what was done, tolerated and accepted behind closed doors is now legally enforced and required of us citizens to obey? Is it any wonder that whatever freedoms we had are diminishing rapidly?


19 posted on 01/17/2024 11:56:25 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (A truth that’s told with bad intent, Beats all the lies you can invent ~ Wm. Blake)
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To: aspasia

Cultural collapse has caused population collapse IMHO
Who wants to have kids in the shit condition of our country?
I had 6 kids and so far 7 grands. We pray for all of them daily


20 posted on 01/17/2024 12:06:22 PM PST by The Mayor (Loving Father, help me find my fulfillment in You.)
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