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1 posted on 06/17/2023 6:48:57 AM PDT by JonPreston
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To: JonPreston

Its amazing how docile Americans have been given that their own government has lied them into ever-expanding war, especially now with a nuclear power


2 posted on 06/17/2023 6:50:30 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: JonPreston

Well then, Adios NATO.


3 posted on 06/17/2023 6:50:59 AM PDT by budj (Combat vet, second of three generations.)
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To: JonPreston

I vote for the collapse of Nato.


4 posted on 06/17/2023 6:51:44 AM PDT by Blurb2350 (posted from my 1500-watt blow dryer)
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To: JonPreston
the United States could face the "collapse of NATO"…

I’m cool with that. NATO has outlived its Cold War purpose.

5 posted on 06/17/2023 6:53:17 AM PDT by Allegra (Stop the Zeepers from Censoring FReepers)
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To: JonPreston

Uh, no.
Hey Z, you created it, you own it. STFU.


6 posted on 06/17/2023 6:53:32 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: JonPreston

Collapse of NATO it is.


11 posted on 06/17/2023 6:57:14 AM PDT by WeaslesRippedMyFlesh (wake me up when somebody tells the truth)
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To: JonPreston

The US government will be making a mammoth mistake from which it may not recover if it tries to directly involve this country in a kinetic war in Ukraine. Guaranteed.


16 posted on 06/17/2023 7:01:04 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: JonPreston

Including losing billions of taxpayer’s money.


17 posted on 06/17/2023 7:02:36 AM PDT by SkyDancer (My Talents Are So Hidden That Even I Can't Find Them ...)
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To: JonPreston

I will not fight for Ukraine.
I consider blue helmets a target.
Y’all globalists need to reconsider real soon.


18 posted on 06/17/2023 7:09:26 AM PDT by bk1000 (Banned from Breitbart)
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To: JonPreston

Query:

  1. Does Volodymyr Zelenskyy have Pedo-Joe Biden on a leash?

  2. Is that why Pedo-Joe is so desperate to keep giving millions and billions of taxpayer dollars to Ukraine?

  3. When Ukraine loses how long will it take Vladimir Putin to release the hard evidence of Pedo-Joe's influence peddling to Ukraine?


21 posted on 06/17/2023 7:12:47 AM PDT by Iron Munro (Sun Tzu: "An evil man will burn his own nation to the ground to rule over the ashes." )
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To: JonPreston
--- "Zelenskyy: If Ukraine loses, U.S. must choose between the collapse of NATO or going to war"

Stepping back a bit, one observes that this is a USA Today article being amplified through MSN, so the media is "all in" in this moment is pointing to something. The question then is -- to what?

The article quotes Z: " 'If Ukraine would lose, if Russia would occupy Ukraine, Russia will continue going toward Baltic countries, Poland, etcetera,' he said. 'They will start war with one of the NATO countries and at this moment the United States will have to choose the collapse of NATO or go to war'."

The architecture of this argument reminds me, once in olive drab under LBJ, of the "domino theory" pushed by the Democrat Party and much later rather repudiated by McNamara while peddling his memoirs,

I am sure that there are those on FR who think Russia will, in Z's words, "continue going toward Baltic countries, Poland, etcetera." But observe the wiggle. "Toward" is not "into" and "occupy." And there also those on FR who think Russia will not do as Z foretells.

It does sound like a geopolitical policy sales pitch, rather like our justifications for being in Vietnam for about 20 years, as for being in Afghanistan for about 20 years. Robert McNamara? Anyone remember the dominoes falling? What we know is that since that time, Vietnam won the Vietnam war because we lost it. And Afghanistan won the Afghanistan war because we lost it.

An excerpt:

---- "Corruption, religious differences, and mounting successes by the Vietcong guerrillas weakened the South Vietnamese government of Ngo Dinh Diem. Diem was Catholic, and public protests over the repression of Buddhists threatened the stability of his regime. Kennedy accelerated the flow of American aid and gradually increased U.S. military advisers to more than 16,000. At the same time, he pressed the Diem government to clean house and institute long-overdue political and economic reforms.
---- The situation did not improve. In September of 1963, President Kennedy declared in an interview, "In the final analysis, it is their war. They are the ones who have to win it or lose it. We can help them, we can give them equipment, we can send our men out there as advisers, but they have to win it, the people of Vietnam, against the Communists... But I don't agree with those who say we should withdraw. That would be a great mistake... [The United States] made this effort to defend Europe. Now Europe is quite secure. We also have to participate—we may not like it—in the defense of Asia."

Source: https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/vietnam

So in the light of our history and Robert McNamara: Z says "If Ukraine loses, U.S. must choose between the collapse of NATO or going to war."

Because there are no other alternatives? Either-or?

Well the end of the JFK article under the heading "A Domino Falls," says "In January 1975, North Vietnam began massive invasions of South Vietnam. A few months later, the North Vietnamese captured the capital city of Saigon, and the last Americans were evacuated from the US embassy. The American war in Vietnam was over. More than 3 million Vietnamese and 58,000 Americans had lost their lives."

Question --- who won? And who wants to play "the geopolitical policy sales pitch game"? They're lining up now....

22 posted on 06/17/2023 7:17:57 AM PDT by Worldtraveler once upon a time (Degrow government)
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To: JonPreston

No. Americans have to choose between keeping the Ukraine Money Laundry open for Western politicians or dying in a nuclear holocaust.


24 posted on 06/17/2023 7:20:51 AM PDT by Westbrook (The Democrats are wizards at two things: Finding votes and losing evidence.)
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To: JonPreston

I think this entitled little homosexual has worn out his welcome.


27 posted on 06/17/2023 7:27:56 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've just pissed in my pants and nobody can do anything about it." -- Major Fambrough)
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To: JonPreston

Adios NATO!


29 posted on 06/17/2023 7:31:26 AM PDT by DarthVader (Not by speeches & majority decisions will the great issues of the day be decided but by Blood & Iron)
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To: JonPreston

Yeah, so?

Having a hard time seeing the problem here.

Let the Krauts and the Limeys and the Frogs et al work it out.


30 posted on 06/17/2023 7:37:54 AM PDT by OKSooner ("Oh, the mad fools!")
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To: JonPreston

Tucker said it quite succinctly late last year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZwG7mIpEAI


31 posted on 06/17/2023 7:41:33 AM PDT by Allegra (Stop the Zeepers from Censoring FReepers)
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To: JonPreston
The problem is that Biden's handlers have no willingness to act in America's best interest.

Biden's Administration should tell NATO and Ukraine to figure it out.

BUT, they will likely meet Putin's threat of using nukes, with their own stupid counter-threat.

32 posted on 06/17/2023 7:41:42 AM PDT by G Larry (It is RACIST to impose SLAVE WAGES on LEGAL Immigrants by importing Cheap ILLEGAL Labor!)
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To: JonPreston

Uhm...hey, Z, buddy...you are not a part of NATO.

Your threat is empty.


35 posted on 06/17/2023 7:52:18 AM PDT by TheWriterTX (Trust not in earthly princes....!)
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To: JonPreston
Our position as a leading first world country is rapidly diminished. Most Americans don't know or don't care about NATO or Ukraine. Our wealth has been squandered in useless wars and soon we will not be able to provide for all the promised unfunded liabilities that are close to 100 trillion dollars.
36 posted on 06/17/2023 7:53:24 AM PDT by pterional (scorched earth)
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To: JonPreston

That’s easy. Good riddance to NATO/GloboHomo


40 posted on 06/17/2023 8:08:32 AM PDT by Trumpisourlastchance
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