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Ukraine is shaping up as a forever war
The Times UK ^ | Tuesday January 31 2023, 9.00pm GMT | Roger Boyes

Posted on 01/31/2023 7:53:25 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum

The great nightmare of the Cold War was that giant Russian tank armies would not only crush their immediate neighbours but also sweep across the north German plains, hug western cities like Hamburg and hold them hostage, confounding all our calculations about a cautious escalation ladder. Now we have promised to supply Ukraine with a Nato tank army, there is a new version of this bad dream: is the war set to run out of control?

It is difficult to see the relatively small number of pledged tanks matching their billing of becoming a game changer. At the Battle of Kursk in 1943 — still taught in Russian military academies as one of the pivots of the Second World War — Hitler had 50 divisions with 435,000 men and 3,155 tanks against a Red Army force of over a million men and 3,275 tanks, a clash between heavy-gunned armadas. In the Russian telling, it was the swansong of German armour, a masterpiece of Soviet operational land war.

Little wonder that western militaries fetishised the Russian tank threat. My father told the story of a 1960s military exercise on the Lüneburg Heath, south of Hamburg and not far from the East German border. He became stranded and ended up in a sprawling barn filled with loud, chain-smoking and carousing Scottish troops who had been designated “dead” by the war game referees. They had been outmanoeuvred by made-up Soviet tank units which were already deep inside West Germany. “You must be in hell,” my mother told him when he rang her to complain about the Jocks.

(Excerpt) Read more at thetimes.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: bidensneoconbuttboys; blueandyellowpompoms; letsgoukraine; natoexpansion; neoconswar4grift; notourfight; putin; putinswar; putinswarofchoice; rogerboyes; russianinvasion; sovietreunion; ukrainecorruption; war; zelenskyworshippers
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To: MarMema

Sadly many (including some here) have no problem with this price to pay.


21 posted on 01/31/2023 11:53:08 PM PST by Freedom56v2
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To: MarMema

Putin’s army already

1. Retreated from Kyiv in March 2022 after losing the battle of Hostomel and the battle for Kyiv

2. Retreated from Kharkiv and then Lyman etc in September after losing the battle there

3. Retreated from Kherson in November after losing there.

China does not recognise Putin’s attempted annexation of parts of the Donbas provinces of Ukraine.

China wants Putin to retreat and be the good little vassal state to the Middle kingdom


22 posted on 01/31/2023 11:58:52 PM PST by Cronos
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To: MarMema; canuck_conservative

Cakling the Russian Russian mili inept is apt.

They took years to pacify Chechnya, a tiny bit of land.

They have been continually pushed out of Ukraine by Ukrainians since end of march 2022.

They have shown that their logistics, planning and execution are heavily flawed to put it mildly


23 posted on 02/01/2023 12:01:08 AM PST by Cronos
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To: MarMema

Russia invaded Chechnya first in the 1800s. The Vainakh have a history that is millenia older than the Tsardom of Muscowy.

The Chechens have hated Moscow ever since. In fact it was your Russian invasions that pushed them from their mix of Vainakh paganism mixed with sufism to militant Sunnis.


24 posted on 02/01/2023 12:02:49 AM PST by Cronos
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Its the Orwellian 1984 wars.


25 posted on 02/01/2023 12:12:39 AM PST by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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To: Cronos

China abstains from a vote at the UN General Assembly for a non-binding resolution condemning Russia for its invasion of Ukraine and demanding an immediate withdrawal. China’s Ambassador to the UN Zhang Jun says that the draft resolution “has not undergone full consultations within the whole membership. Nor does it take full consideration the history and complexity of the current crisis. It does not highlight the importance of the principle of indivisible security, or the urgency of promoting political settlement and stepping up diplomatic efforts. These are not in line with China’s consistent positions. Therefore we had no choice but to abstain in the voting.”


26 posted on 02/01/2023 12:17:54 AM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: Cronos

The Chechens love Putin and Russia today.


27 posted on 02/01/2023 12:18:40 AM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: Cronos

Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Hua Chunying fields questions about the Ukraine crisis in a press conference and challenges “Western media’s” use of the word “invasion” and calls Russia’s activity a “special military operation.” Hua states China will carry out normal trade with both Russia and Ukraine and states that China has not provided weapons or support to Russia.

China abstains from voting on a UN Security Council resolution on ending the Ukraine Crisis. China’s representative says he abstained because the Council should act to “defuse and not add fuel to the fire.” The resolution fails due to a Russian veto, amid 11 votes of support, and three abstentions.

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi stated China’s “basic position on the Ukraine issue.” During a call with UK Foreign Secretary Elizabeth Truss, High Representative of the European Union Josep Borell, and French Diplomatic Advisor to the President Emmanuel Bonne, Wang expressed China’s support for a diplomatic solution to the crisis, but also stated, “Given NATO’s five consecutive rounds of eastward expansion, Russia’s legitimate security demands ought to be taken seriously and properly addressed.” The “five waves” language was also used by President Putin during his December 2021 annual news conference.

Embattled Chinese ride-hailing giant Didi Chuxing reverses decision to shut down operations in Russia after Chinese social media users criticized the firm’s alleged “loyalty to the United States and Europe.” The New York Times reports on an uptick in Chinese social media users’ support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin denies a report by the New York Times that senior Chinese officials told senior Russian officials not to invade Ukraine before the end of the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing, claiming instead that the “decision by the U.S. to expand NATO” led to the crisis

People’s Daily publishes a commentary under the penname “Zhong Sheng” that describes the United States as the “initiator of the Ukraine crisis.”

China’s Ambassador to the United States Qin Gang appears on CBS News’ Face the Nation and argues that China’s good relations with Russia put it in a “unique” position to mediate a peaceful settlement of the Ukraine crisis. Qin Gang refuses to call the war an “invasion” and states that condemning Russia would be “naïve.” He also joins Phoenix TV, a pro-CCP Chinese language television network, for an interview where he says there are no restrictions on China’s cooperation with Russia, but that the two countries will cooperate to further “aims and principles established by the UN Charter.”


28 posted on 02/01/2023 12:25:16 AM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: Cronos

China’s Ambassador to the United Nations Zhang Jun abstains from voting on the General Assembly’s resolution which criticizes Russia for creating a “dire humanitarian situation” and supports humanitarian efforts. The General Assembly adopts the resolution with 140 votes in favor, 5 against, and 38 abstentions. China opposes elements of the resolution that go beyond the “humanitarian context,” and Zhang reiterates China’s support for a competing resolution proposed by South Africa’s delegation which does not mention Russia, although this resolution is not put to a vote.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg states “China has been unwilling to condemn Russia’s aggression. And has joined Moscow in questioning the right of nations to choose their own path.” Stoltenberg notes that this is “a systematic challenge to our security” and that NATO will “need to take account for China’s growing influence and coercive policies on the global stage.”

General Secretary Xi Jinping announces a Global Security Initiative during the Boao Forum for Asia Annual Conference. This announcement offers few details about what the initiative will do, but accepts the Russian espoused concept of “indivisible security.”
U.S. State Department Spokesperson Ned Price states General Secretary Xi Jinping’s Global Security Initiative parrots the Kremlin’s view of “indivisible security,” an idea that Russia has tried to use to claim a casus belli for it’s illegal invasion.

China’s Embassy in the United States publishes a list of ten “falsehoods spread by the U.S.” The article attacks criticism from the United States that China is amplifying Russian propaganda and providing support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

China votes against a resolution at the UN Human Rights Council (HRC) directing the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine to investigate possible war crimes and violations of human rights that occurred around Kyiv, Chernihiv, Kharkiv, and Sumy. The Commission of Inquiry was established on March 4 by an HRC resolution to investigate alleged violations and abuses of human rights against Ukraine by Russia. China abstained from voting on that resolution.

Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin expresses China’s appreciation for Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov’s statement that Russia will focus on developing relations with China and “reliable” countries to reduce its dependence on Western imports. Wang reaffirms the importance and resilience of the China-Russia relationship.


29 posted on 02/01/2023 12:33:04 AM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: Cronos

General Secretary Xi Jinping claims that expanding military alliances and hegemonism led to the crisis in Ukraine during a speech at the BRICS Business Forum. Xi also calls for the international community to oppose the hegemony of any one country and uses the platform to promote his proposed Global Security Initiative.

Tons more here...China always supports Russia.

https://www.uscc.gov/research/chinas-position-russias-invasion-ukraine


30 posted on 02/01/2023 12:37:27 AM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: Cronos

31 posted on 02/01/2023 12:40:31 AM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: MarMema
Those are photo ops

here are some others

Neither China nor India recognize nor will recognize the temporary Russian occupation of parts of the 4 Donbas provinces of ukraine

32 posted on 02/01/2023 1:02:46 AM PST by Cronos
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To: ganeemead
There are millions and millions of them. To most leftwingers, and especially to leftists, what matters more than anythingin their lives is their beloved ideology. It trumps everything.

I recently re-read the Gulag Archipelago, abridged version. In it Solzhenitsyn writes about guys he was in the gulags with who, in spite of their enslavement and torture, would not renounce communism, Stalin and Lenin but continued extolling their "virtues."

So it is with leftist filth in America when it comes to anyone who represents their sick, satanic agendas. That includes Biden and every criminal aiding and abetting his dystopian policies.

33 posted on 02/01/2023 1:19:25 AM PST by Rocco DiPippo
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To: MarMema; taxcontrol; Antioch; canuck_conservative
Marmema, you write China, Iran, and India enter the war to assist Russia.

If you had any idea of history, you would know that both Iran and China have territorial grievances against Russia

Here is Chinese territorial claims (in dark red)

And Iran too

Furthermore, India and China have been at loggerheads since 1962 when China stabbed India in the back - and China still both holds on to Aksai Chin and claims Arunachal Pradesh


34 posted on 02/01/2023 2:39:54 AM PST by Cronos
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To: MarMema

China abstained.

It didn’t vote on Russia’s side.


35 posted on 02/01/2023 2:41:19 AM PST by Cronos
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To: MarMema

Chechen elite feels like it can do whatever it wants both in or outside Chechnya and still get paid by Russian government for hiding separatism.

Nobody in Russia dares call out Kadyrov - not even Putin.

Russian laws do not apply in Chechnya.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-chechnya-idUSKBN0NE28O20150423
Chechen leader tells security forces to shoot if Russian police intrude

https://www.rferl.org/a/chechnya-kadyrov-challenges-moscow-budget-subsidies/28123822.html
Chechen Leader Kadyrov Challenges Moscow Over Budget Subsidies


36 posted on 02/01/2023 2:45:18 AM PST by Cronos
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To: MarMema

The Chinese position on the Ukraine issue is pretty interesting. On one hand Russia is a close strategic partner, so they don’t want to alienate them - they need them to counterbalance the US. On the other hand, the PRC takes quite a dim view of separatism and secessionism, particularly since supporting separatism abroad might set a dangerous precedent with regard to Taiwan, Xinjiang, HK etc.

The net result is that China practically abstains from voting on any UN resolution on Ukraine. There have been diplomatic statements of support for Ukraine’s territorial integrity, along with the usual “non-interference” words


37 posted on 02/01/2023 2:48:03 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Beowulf9

Surprise! Another forever war created by democrats and RINOs.


38 posted on 02/01/2023 2:56:09 AM PST by joma89 (Buy weapons and ammo, folks, and have the will to use them.)
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To: Cronos

For now China doesn’t recognize it. The battle is still on. But they buy all the Russian commodities formerly destined for the EU. They supply chips too. That’s support where it counts.


39 posted on 02/01/2023 5:05:41 AM PST by Antioch (Against stupidity even the Gods struggle in vain….)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Brit drivel


40 posted on 02/01/2023 5:14:27 AM PST by bert ( (KWE. NP. N.C. +12) Juneteenth is inequality day )
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