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Ukraine is shaping up as a forever war
The Times UK ^ | Tuesday January 31 2023, 9.00pm GMT | Roger Boyes

Posted on 01/31/2023 7:53:25 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum

The great nightmare of the Cold War was that giant Russian tank armies would not only crush their immediate neighbours but also sweep across the north German plains, hug western cities like Hamburg and hold them hostage, confounding all our calculations about a cautious escalation ladder. Now we have promised to supply Ukraine with a Nato tank army, there is a new version of this bad dream: is the war set to run out of control?

It is difficult to see the relatively small number of pledged tanks matching their billing of becoming a game changer. At the Battle of Kursk in 1943 — still taught in Russian military academies as one of the pivots of the Second World War — Hitler had 50 divisions with 435,000 men and 3,155 tanks against a Red Army force of over a million men and 3,275 tanks, a clash between heavy-gunned armadas. In the Russian telling, it was the swansong of German armour, a masterpiece of Soviet operational land war.

Little wonder that western militaries fetishised the Russian tank threat. My father told the story of a 1960s military exercise on the Lüneburg Heath, south of Hamburg and not far from the East German border. He became stranded and ended up in a sprawling barn filled with loud, chain-smoking and carousing Scottish troops who had been designated “dead” by the war game referees. They had been outmanoeuvred by made-up Soviet tank units which were already deep inside West Germany. “You must be in hell,” my mother told him when he rang her to complain about the Jocks.

(Excerpt) Read more at thetimes.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: bidensneoconbuttboys; blueandyellowpompoms; letsgoukraine; natoexpansion; neoconswar4grift; notourfight; putin; putinswar; putinswarofchoice; rogerboyes; russianinvasion; sovietreunion; ukrainecorruption; war; zelenskyworshippers
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10% of forever for the Big Guy!
1 posted on 01/31/2023 7:53:25 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Remember when all the dems kept saying Trump was going to get into a war?


2 posted on 01/31/2023 7:55:30 PM PST by Beowulf9
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To: Beowulf9

They said Trump was going to start WW3.

And he was so non-war.

Now their potus of choice is going to start WW3.

I would love to hear if they are happy.


3 posted on 01/31/2023 8:02:08 PM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The ‘Laudering’ War


4 posted on 01/31/2023 8:02:36 PM PST by George from New England
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Feb 12th I’m sending the penis piano player a Valentine card


5 posted on 01/31/2023 8:18:10 PM PST by Karliner (Heb 4:12 Rom 8:28 Rev 3, "...This is the end of the beginning." Churchill)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Not forever. One of two conditions will end it.

1) Russia looses half a million men or more
2) Russian citizens die by a few million of starvation
2) Russia takes over all most all of Ukraine.


6 posted on 01/31/2023 8:26:12 PM PST by taxcontrol (The choice is clear - either live as a slave on your knees or die as a free citizen on your feet.)
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To: taxcontrol

It could go ‘cold’, Russians holding what they have and not firing on any particular day until the Ukrainians do.


7 posted on 01/31/2023 8:32:24 PM PST by Brian Griffin
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To: taxcontrol

Another more likely scenario will end it. The de-dollarization of the economies of the fast expanding Brics+. nations in 2023. That destroys the money printing presses, pushes the 32 trillion dollar debt to the front of the line and collapses the empire of lies in short order.


8 posted on 01/31/2023 8:40:59 PM PST by Antioch (Against stupidity even the Gods struggle in vain….)
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To: taxcontrol

None of those.

1.We escalate weapons until a serious hit on Moscow happens.

2.Russia uses tactical nukes.

3. NATO ground troops enter to fight Russia.

4. Russia takes out all the US bases they can hit while their belgorod sub and hypersonic nuke boat release pure hell on both US coasts. They save one of their largest nukes for the Brits.

5. London ceases to exist.

6. China, Iran, and India enter the war to assist Russia.

7. End of the world as we know it.

Cut to Wooden Ships for the real ending.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AdiuqQ7xm30

Hint. Read about what Russia did to Grozny after getting frustrated and feeling overwhelmed.


9 posted on 01/31/2023 8:55:22 PM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: Antioch

I wish that less violent way out was available but I think...no time.

We were at St Nicholas in Seattle spending the day after liturgy. All of the kids were running around playing.
Mine came to me and asked if they could have candy.
I told them, no, I didn’t think they needed any candy.
I didn’t know it had been offered to them.

In under five minutes a large Babushka arrived in front of me. She said “Your kids cannot have any candy?!!!” In a booming Russian accented voice.

And they had candy.


10 posted on 01/31/2023 9:01:03 PM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: Antioch

That misses who owns all that debt. That is who gets wiped out, and it’s not the USA.


11 posted on 01/31/2023 9:01:26 PM PST by Renfrew (Muscovia delenda est)
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To: All
I get quite a kick out of the newbies to Russian war here. I have followed closely every single one.What Russia under Putin did to Grozny.
12 posted on 01/31/2023 9:13:57 PM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: MarMema
"I would love to hear if they are happy."

I'd like to know if there is even one person in the land still happy about voting for Biden...

13 posted on 01/31/2023 9:57:58 PM PST by ganeemead (Ukraine/Zelensky: Adding an element of chutzpah to ordinary Nazism...)
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To: MarMema

India and china and iran are not going to go to war to support Putin’s invasion.


14 posted on 01/31/2023 10:42:05 PM PST by Cronos
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

You can replenish the weapons but you can’t replenish the troops.


15 posted on 01/31/2023 10:44:30 PM PST by McGruff (Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up - Barack Obama)
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To: MarMema; taxcontrol; Antioch

China does not recognize Russia’s annexation of Ukrainian territories. For them, Crimea, as well as the recently annexed four territories of Novoróssiya are still Ukraine.

Putin’s quirky logic that says Kosovo can’t vote for a breakout, but Crimea can, is too advanced for China.

China naturally projects the Crimea precedent on their Taiwan situation. Putin says, “people voted for breaking with Ukraine and joining us.” Can PRC go along with this? Can they accept that Taiwan jumps at the opportunity and vote for a breakout, too?

Of course not.


16 posted on 01/31/2023 10:45:13 PM PST by Cronos
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To: MarMema; taxcontrol; Antioch

As for your, Marmema, fantasy of nukes, that would push China even further.

a worldwide chain reaction of nuclear proliferation is right around the corner. PRC couldn’t care less if Germans and the Nordics get their nukes in 2023 or 2024. But Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan going nuclear would totally re-arrange everything right at their doorstep. The Americans get a giant stick to hang over the Chinese head: join us in kicking Russia out of the Security Council, or we walk out of the non-proliferation pact.

China wants Putin to stop the war and retreat back to 2021 borders


17 posted on 01/31/2023 10:46:15 PM PST by Cronos
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To: MarMema
What Russia under Putin did to Grozny

thank you for succinctly explaining why Ukraine is fighting so hard


18 posted on 01/31/2023 11:12:24 PM PST by canuck_conservative (12th month now, and no end in sight)
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To: canuck_conservative

Two different wars. You know nothing about these cultures or the behaviors prior to the wars.
Actually three. I was over there in those days.

Calling the Russian military inept is a joke.

They are simply being much kinder to Ukraine.

Putin has softened up.


19 posted on 01/31/2023 11:48:32 PM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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To: Cronos

Not retreat. Where did you get that idea from?


20 posted on 01/31/2023 11:49:47 PM PST by MarMema (Orange Putin Bad)
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