Posted on 01/30/2023 6:00:52 AM PST by Eleutheria5
The war between Russia and Ukraine started long before February 24, 2022. Russian aggression has been constant ever since Vladimir Putin came to power in the late nineties. However, it was the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014 that started the current conflict. The crazy part is NATO and the rest of the world just watched as Russian forces invaded Crimea in an eerily similar way to how Nazi Germany annexed Austria, Czechoslovakia, and the Rhineland before launching its invasion of Poland and starting World War II.
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Doesn't necessarily have to "retake" the Crimea.
My prediction is that a future Russian rump-state (called, say, "Greater Moscovy") will voluntarily return the Crimea to Ukraine.
Regards,
And Romania’s relationship with other former Latin speaking countries dates back to the Roman Empire in the 2nd century A.D. So what?
The warmongers and globalists keep preaching countries like Russia are bad for trying to defend themselves. It's OK in their eyes to massacre Russians in Ukraine and launch coups in Ukraine "for democracy," shut down churches and media and political parties and all the other illiberal, hypocritical activity western elites are doing to Ukraine.
Western elites are the greatest threat to freedom and our survival, whether we are Ukrainians or Americans or Russians. Kudos to Russia for fighting back against their hegemony.
If you will notice, the Crimea (in green) was controlled by Tatars. The Tatars is an umbrella term for different Turkic ethnic groups bearing the name "Tatar". Initially, the ethnonym Tatar possibly referred to the Tatar confederation. That confederation was eventually incorporated into the Mongol Empire when Genghis Khan unified the various steppe tribes.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Name one of those international treaties.
If we and NATO launched a full-scale war, one that would set off WWIII, Crimea would remain under Russian control.
And, never mind, the people of Crimea would fight to the death to avoid being forced to rejoin Ukraine. Most never wanted to be a part of it after the Soviet Union collapsed.
These fantasies are nonsense.
It was part of Russia until 1954 when Soviets gave it to Ukraine never anticipating the collapse of the Soviet Union.
I don't need a history lesson from you.
Anyone here can easily produce a map from 1866 or 1776 or 1066 or from whatever year you want, showing any number of different countries that are now considerably smaller or larger than the are now.
That is not the proper basis for discussion of the issue at hand.
Regards,
The Belovezha Accords - signed on December 8, 1991 by President Boris Yeltsin of Russia, President Kravchuk of Ukraine, and Chairman Shushkevich of Belarus.
Regards,
Ukraine's claim to Crimea is a very weak claim at best.
--- Yet you offered a history lesson with, "Russia has a history of invading foreign countries, subjugating them, deporting their populaces, and annexing their territory."
Which history lesson is allowed and which is not? And who is defining the "proper basis for discussion?" Unraveling such as historical borders is a problem which begins with picking a date to commence the "discussion."
But what is at hand is that none here on Free Republic threads is a judge above others in deciding what is "the proper basis for discussion ...." Moreover, none of us will have any real impact on whatever the long term outcome of the Ukraine-Russia war. Or is it the NATO-Russia war, as some NATO voices have said? Or the German-Russian war, as Annalena Baerbock bluntly asserted only recently? Or the contest for what Biden called the "liberal world order?" Or perhaps "the rules based world order" as von der Leyen has said? So many voices on which to select a "proper basis" for this time in the world's bloody history.
Sure it is, when you make the stupid statement that you made.
If Ukraine takes Crimea, Putin and his regime will lose the war and fall from power. The ethnic Russians in Crimea there will have to live under Ukrainian rule or leave. The terms of Ukrainian rule over Crimea will then be set by peace talks in which Russia is at a disadvantage.
Crimea is not Ukraine. It is more Russia than anything, although they have a lot of Khazaks. They do not speak Ukrainian there. The Russian Black Sea Fleet has been based there for a very long time. I have been there and seen it about 15 years ago - rusting in the harbor. The submarines looked plenty dangerous though. The Czar of Russia since the mid-1800s kept his winter palace there, beautiful place, in Yalta - where FDR and Churchill carved up post-war Europe at the end of WW-2, giving Crimea of course to Russia. I have been there, and it is most certainly not Ukraine. In order for Ukraine to take Crimea, they will have to exterminate most of the indigenous population, who consider themselves to be Russian.
Can Ukraine do without Crimea? is a silly question. They always have. Even after the fall of the Soviet Union, when Crimea was for a short time nominally under dominion of the government in Kiev, they had their own local government and strained relations with Kiev. Ethnic Russians locally and Russians from Russia own most of the housing and property there. It is Russia’s Florida and they all used to vacation there.
“These fantasies are nonsense.”
For the fantasies and nonsense, see the preceding paragraphs by Kazan.
Russians vacation there. Some live there. The “people of Crimea” include Tartars (the original inhabitants), Ukrainians, and the usual hodgepodge of Russians, Ukrainians, Tajiks, Armenians, etc., characteristic of the entire Eastern Europe and Eurasia, including Russia itself AND Ukraine. The “people of Crimea,” setting aside the demographic soup there, are dependent on mainland Ukraine for their drinking water, which is why Nikita joined Crimea to the Ukrainian Republic in the first place, and why Putin built such a ridiculously elongated bridge (now partially defunct) to create a land route from Russia to Crimea in the first place. If they were die-hard Russian nationalists, willing to “fight to the death” to avoid rejoining Ukraine, why did Putin have to import his fake separatists there in order to justify invading.
“Most never wanted to be a part of it after the Soviet Union collapsed.”
You did a poll? Really? Look at a map. You’d need a tectonic plate shift to separate Ukraine from Crimea, let alone float it across the Black Sea to become contiguous with Russia. it’s been thirty years since the Soviet Union collapsed, and eight years since Russia invaded Crimea using the “little green men” as his pretext. In the intervening 22 years, Ukraine has had its ups and downs. It, and Crimea, are not the same now as they were 30 years ago, or even eight years ago, any more than Russia is the same as it was when Boris Yeltsin climbed onto a tank and stopped it with his alcohol-stink burps.
Kick the Russian occupiers out—oh, yes. That is coming. And then have a referendum, after, say, one year, on what the “people of Crimea” want after the dust settles.
Khrushchev was a Russian born in Russia. His family moved to Ukraine when he was young so he lived there for a number of years but he was not a Ukrainian.
Ping
Ohh, thanks for that correction.
The fate of the multinational state cannot be determined by the will of the leaders of three republics. The question should be decided only by constitutional means with the participation of all sovereign states and taking into account the will of all their citizens. The statement that Unionwide legal norms would cease to be in effect is also illegal and dangerous; it can only worsen the chaos and anarchy in society. The hastiness with which the document appeared is also of serious concern. It was not discussed by the populations nor by the Supreme Soviets of the republics in whose name it was signed. Even worse, it appeared at the moment when the draft treaty for a Union of Sovereign States, drafted by the USSR State Council, was being discussed by the parliaments of the republics.[12]
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