Posted on 01/02/2023 3:13:10 AM PST by Jyotishi
Crimea was a semi-autonomous region in Ukraine before the invasion, and now its a police state, so not sure what rights Putin has protected in Crimea.
Its ridiculous to say Putin was "forced" to go to war, neither Ukraine nor NATO was going to invade nuclear armed Russia.
Ukraine was almost always historically controlled by someone else.
During the 20th century, Ukraine was aligned with the USSR and the Russian people.
After the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine floundered as an independent nation being pulled by east and west at the same time. Its corruption levels did not help its independence.
In 2014, after Russia annexed Crimea, the west staged a coup and had the Russia-aligned leader impeached, replaced with a western-aligned leader.
This did not sit well with the large portion of the Ukrainian population that was aligned with Russia.
After that, Ukraine was torn apart into pro-western and pro-Russian factions that fought each other. The new, pro-western government got involved and so did Russia.
There were no efforts to resolve the situation peacefully by the west that also used threats of NATO membership, etc. to escalate the tensions.
Russia is not the good guy. The west is not the good guy.
I join you in your sentiment, and refuse the "offer" to pick one of two possible "sides." Not every conflict and not every argument is dualistic in nature. Certainly this particular conflict will end with a loss, as our Afghan adventure was indeed a loss, spun as necessary and such. What will be the outcome of this Ukraine/Russia slugfest? The "sides" say their view, but I have no idea. Time will tell. The impact will be far larger than we expect, I should think, as the multipolar world seems forming with greater speed, and this predicts Biden's claim that "we must lead the liberal world order" is a boast, and not a likelihood.
Ukraine was free and independent for the last 30 years, and they have shown in their defense against Putin's invasion they don't want to be under Putin's boot.
“And clearly, Putin was threatened by the NATO encirclement in and around Russia. His concerns were not addressed by the West and forced him to go to war.”
Wow, this is going to ANGER the bunch who are trying to re-write history to now claim that all was fine on Feb 24 of last year, and then Putin just, arbitrarily, decided to invade Ukraine that day. Must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed that morning, perhaps?
“His concerns were not addressed by the West and forced him to go to war. It is a fact. But that can’t be a justification for Russia to attack an independent nation.”
Heck, the West wouldn’t even return his calls in the months leading up to the military operation. What’s funny is that during the Cold War, the Hippies DEMANDED that we talk with the Soviets, as that was the only way to prevent war (and they were likely right).
Now the Hippies are running the West, and they completely REFUSED to talk to Putin. Makes it quite obvious that this is a war they wanted.
1. We all need to grapple with the reality that Ukraine was an integral part of the former USSR till its breakdown in the year 1991. --> so? India and Ireland were integral parts of the British empire until it's breakdown (1920-1947), that does not mean they should be part of it now.
2. the growing pain of a new Russia that wants to set the course of global political leadership under Putin. -- Putin could have focused, like Modi is, on growing the wealth of ordinary Russians. But he did the opposite and is using the war to distract them from his abysmal performance
that was March and look at how much you Russians have lost by January 2023
You are losing so I understand you panicking
Do you still want to hunt down Muslims and shoot them?
“Ukraine was almost always historically controlled by someone else.”
Neither was Estonia nor Latvia nor Ireland (until 1920) etc. — yet Ukraine has been independent since 1990, that is 30 years.
IN 2014 there wasn’t a coup - Yanokowych promised one thing and broke his promise to the electorate. there were peaceful sitdowns in Kyiv but he used force and finally he fled.
He was impeached and lost.
Poroshenko, who was then elected, was and is a native Russian speaker — as is Zelensky.
There isn’t “a large portion of the Ukrainian population aligned with Russia” - note that in the 1991 referendum to leave the USSR, 56% of Crimea, and about 76% to 80% of the Donbas regions voted to leave the USSR and leave a union with Russia. Since then the percentage has only increased in the non-Crimea places.
Also in late 2014 I met with a Ukrainian who was bringing aid to orphanages in the occupied Donbass territory. When the checkpoints were closed he decided to enter through Russia. He was killed in Russia a few days after I met with him in a “car accident.”
So yes, the war began in 2014.
Then in 2015, I heard former general Wesley Clark speak. Of course I can hardly stomach him, but what he said had turned out to be right. He called the conflict the next phases in East-West war where new war methods were being tested. He was very concerned it would escalate.
By extension, the purpose of the expanded Ukraine war could be further testing of weapons development and war strategy on a national level.
Russia doesn’t pose an immediate threat to me personally. The western oligopoly does.
No. WE are the baddies in this situation. The collective west under the corrupt deceptive US has created this situation. Too many lies. The whole edifice of American “righteousness” is dead since it has been replaced with a sick cabal of corrupt deep state agencies. They lie to us…they lie to the world. They are not to be trusted. Social media propaganda and manipulation has been used to distort truth and consolidate power. If they are defeated by the hands of Russia then so be it. The more resounding the defeat, the better.
good points..
Ukraine has been a “country” longer than russia/muskovy
Ukraine is NOT russian. It was settled by Jews, Greeks and Vikings way before russia was a country.
putin is an evil man, a killer. That must be understood, imo
He is a statesman and carefully explains his interests honestly. He did so good over a decade. Our perverted and depraved government bent on world domination utterly ignored him. To show the slightest respect would imply that they did not rule the world.
Lavrov is even more of a statesman. No western leader compares.
Ukrainian dictator replicates WWII-type war crimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B84HPchJMi0&ab_channel=TFIGlobal
From the article:
“Above all, Putin must put this war to an end at least on humanitarian ground.”
________________
Some people are simply deaf, dumb and blind. Russia will never be allowed to simply end this war. Russia is being forced to retaliate against their opposition and when they do we’ll all know it happens here.
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