Jon Meacham: Mock Me, But Biden Has Handled Ukraine Crisis With 'Immense Skill'

NewsBusters ^ | Mark Finkelstein

[pierrem15]

I can quite easily enumerate America's tangible interests: a) first, doing nothing about Ukraine now would mean -inevitably- an attack on the Baltics or Poland or elsewhere on NATO. After all, why not, if we do not react to naked aggression now, why would Russia think we would later? b) allowing Europe with its wealth and defense tech to become thrall to Moscow or Beijing (or both) by withdrawing cannot possibly be in America's interests. It's not that Europe can't pay for it's own defense- it simply does not have any political organization capable of doing so, despite the EU.

I don't like this state of affairs any more than you do. Even my relatives in Europe cringe every time some European politician asks why the Americans aren't taking care of some problem. But I can't see how pretending Europe doesn't matter makes it so.

[silverleaf]

It is not the job of a military analyst to give you a positive report about the side you want to see as the winner. If he’s wrong, it’s not because he chose sides for ideological, moral, financial or any other reason.

The reports being released by our govt agencies and those of the UK, often by leaks to the pwnt media, are absolutely pathetic. Even amateurish. The antithesis of analysis.

The entire Biden admin is a disaster in every respect. Along with the Congress.

[silverleaf]

If you have a real interest, look up the video interviews and lectures by John Mearshimer. ., He’s been calling it right for years. The Uke govt has him on their State deathlist, Myrotvorets.

[silverleaf]

Read today that the Uke Stasi ( SBU) has arrested 50 Ukrainian Orthodox priests that follow the Russian patriarch, as subversive agents, and a purge of monasteries is underway to find any evidence of Russian liturgy or materials in Russian. A priest recently released in a prisoner exchange has spoken out about the treatment of Ukrainian political prisoners, mistreated because it is not expected they will ever be released.

[SheepWhisperer]

I choose “mock you”

[abbastanza]

Doesn’t take much skill to give away someone else’s money

[central_va]

Doesn’t take much skill to give away someone else’s money for a small 10% kick back

fixed it. For the "big guy".

[BroJoeK]

"Ukraine is not an ally.
Europe can handle this one on their own."

The last numbers I saw said Europe combined is contributing nearly as much as the U.S. has.
But until Trump, Americans never insisted Europeans invest in their militaries and one result is, they don't have so much to contribute.

Some analysts / armchair generals (i.e., McGregor) tell us that Russia is not only winning but also preparing for a massive new invasion when the ground freezes in Ukraine.
They say there's no point in Ukrainian resistance and even less point in US sending aid to prolong the war.
Time will tell if they are right.

The stakes for us are the costs of victorious naked aggression -- Russia's invasion of a smaller neighbor will encourage every other brutal dictator, today and future, beginning most likely in Taiwan, and from there, anyone's guess.
Ukraine is our 1938 & Munich, "peace in our time".

We will not like that world and Ukraine is our opportunity to prevent it.

[BroJoeK]

silverleaf: "It is not the job of a military analyst to give you a positive report about the side you want to see as the winner.
If he’s wrong, it’s not because he chose sides for ideological, moral, financial or any other reason."

To me McGregor sounds like a partisan pro-Russian.
I can't verify his statistics, for all I know they are simply undigested Russian propaganda.
And even if we accept his numbers as "reasonable", I don't think they are the only numbers which matter.
We are simply not seeing the whole picture.

People who should well know the true picture are our intelligence services and those of our allies.
And, so far as I know, they are not saying, as McGregor does, "all is lost, woe are we, surrender to Russia, now not later".

Here's what I do know:

1. Ukraine, at 230,000 square miles, is slightly smaller than Texas, or, if you prefer, 2/3 of the difference between Texas and California -- meaning closer to Texas than to California.

2. When orcs invaded in 2014 they captured 16,000 square miles of Ukraine, or about 7%.

3. When orcs re-invaded in February 2022, they took another 46,000 square miles or about 20%, making 62,000 square miles total, or 27% of Ukraine in orc hands.

4. Since about April 2022, Ukrainians have fought back, liberating around 29,000 square miles, or 13% of Ukraine, which is roughly half the territory under orc control in March 2022.

5. Today orcs still control about 33,000 square miles of Ukraine, about 14% of Ukraine's total area and still about double what they had in 2021.

In short, Ukrainians have had considerable success lately, but still have a very long way to go.

But McGregor wants them to surrender now, before it's too late.

[BroJoeK]

silverleaf: "If you have a real interest, look up the video interviews and lectures by John Mearshimer. .,
He’s been calling it right for years. The Uke govt has him on their State deathlist, Myrotvorets."

Yet another pro-Russian?
I don't think so.
Not interested.

Ukrainians have well demonstrated their willingness and ability to fight for their country.
That's what we have to respect and encourage.

Remember, in Korea they signed an armistice in 1953, but no peace treaty and now it's been nearly 70 years.

[BroJoeK]

"Read today that the Uke Stasi ( SBU) has arrested 50 Ukrainian Orthodox priests that follow the Russian patriarch, as subversive agents..."

Maybe this is the report you saw?

I mentioned before, when countries get invaded, their governments can get a little intolerant of opposition nonsense.
In our own Revolutionary War, we tared & feathered British Loyalists and seized their property to help pay for the Revolution.
Ukrainians claim pro-Russian priests are nothing but Russian agents, true or not, who knows?

If Russians care about their Ukrainian priest/agents, they can free them in a peace deal to pull Russian troops out of Ukraine.

Why is that not a good deal?

[VanShuyten]

Mock you? OK

“Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.”

[ConservativeInPA]

Name one thing about this improves the lives of American citizens. I see no benefit to Americans, win, lose or draw. If anything, sending money to Ukraine further bankrupts America. My grandchildren are harmed by this. They will be paying for this and other debts the rest of their lives. It decreases their standard of living.

Explain how all the money being sent to Ukraine is to be used. Besides weapons, there are billions being sent, with no strings, no audits. As for the weapons, what guarantees they will not be sold to profit Ukrainian oligarchs?

What principles does Ukraine have in common with America? Zelenskyy has banned political opposition and arrested his opponents. There is no freedom of the press. He is interfering with the free exercise of religion and threatening those that do not practice approved forms of worship with prison. That applies to Christians. Jeez, that sounds a lot like the direction of our government under the Democrats. It’s the exact opposite of what it should be.

America has no history that ties us to Ukraine. We owe Ukraine nothing. There are no formal treaties. Sure, there are promises such as joining NATO, but NATO offers that to just about every nation in Europe, including Turkey. That’s another nation of corrupt slime balls that don’t give a damn about freedom or America. NATO, and this requires our approval, is slowly and methodically incorporating buffer nations between Russia and Western Europe. Those counties have kept distance between Russia and the West since WWII and throughout the Cold War . They represented a NATO free area, without NATO military bases that kept the peace.

Russia’s gripe with Ukraine rests primarily on Ukraine’s desire to be a NATO member. Ukraine in NATO means no NATO military bases butting right up to the border of Russia. That is a threat to Russia. We survived the Cold War by both sides removing threats. Just imagine what it would be like for China establishing military bases in Mexico. That’s how Russia feels. If Ukraine gave up it NATO ambitions, then this war would never have happen. It would have saved 160,000 lives. Memberships in a pisant alliance is not worth that.

I am pro American military as they come. I have had family in the military/militia since the French and Indian War. My son-in-law is currently serving in the 82nd Airborne and had to deal with Biden’s and woke general’s leadership in Afghanistan just two Augusts ago. Biden needs to be kept as far away from the military as possible. The Joint Chiefs need to be fired. They are just itching of another endless war. That’s another endless war that we won’t win and many American lives and limbs could be lost. Our military should be grounded until we learn how to quickly win wars when and only when we are truly threatened. Russia didn’t represent a threat to America before the war and certainly do not now.

Trump put an end the endless wars, but he’s gone and the deep state is right back to starting another.

Trump wanted to get out of NATO. Apparently he was talked out of that and never really knew how fubar NATO really is. Europe is not carrying its weight. They are by and large impotent. Finland has a stronger military than Germany. Think of that, little Finland, all 5 million citizens, if they join NATO they would be contributing more to NATO than the number one economic power in Europe. By the way, little Finland has kicked Russia’s ass in the past and they can do it again. For the most part, the rest of NATO lacks the will take on Russia because we Americans are suckers and will do their dirty work and pay for it. That’s how messed up NATO is. The European nations of NATO have the most at risk, but they are unwilling to commit to their own defense.

Our constitution is very explicit about war powers. Ir does not include being the world’s cop on the back of American taxpayers and future American generations. Have no doubts, we are waging a proxy war. We have just as many military advisors on the ground in Ukraine as we did at the beginning of the Vietnam War. We have positioned additional troops in Poland and the Baltic states. The deep state cares not about Americans or our military. It does not bother them one bit to enter a full blown conflict with our troops in Europe. They profit from it.

Back to the initial point of this post. How does this improve the lives of American citizens? Be tangible. Make it personal. How does improve your life? How does it make you or any American safer? Then ask, how does it damage America? What are the potential risks? Are the risks really worth it?

[Jumper]

Do you mean Russian has a demented leader... or that slow Joe is the demented leader;)

Putin is objectively following Russia’s national interests, and in Ukraine, with purpose.

[Migraine]

“Do you mean Russian has a demented leader... or that slow Joe is the demented leader;)”

I would say they both are demented, which = double trouble.

National interests with purpose do not = moral rectitude, IMO.

I will grant that both countries are abysmally corrupt; it’s just that one is massively more powerful than the other and is thus in the unenviable moral position of a bully.