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Once approved, should people be required to get a COVID-19 vaccine as a matter of public health?
The Denver Channel ^ | August 31, 2020 | Meghan Lopez

Posted on 09/07/2020 7:34:22 PM PDT by DoodleBob

DENVER — In research laboratories around the world, the race to find a COVID-19 vaccine is on. Already, more than 30,000 volunteers have agreed to participate in Phase 3 vaccine trials in the U.S., according to officials from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

China, meanwhile, has been giving an experimental vaccine to medical professionals, border inspectors and other workers in high-risk professions, according to CNN.

President Trump has committed the U.S. to approving a vaccine by the end of the year.

Once a vaccine is approved, however, should cities, states or businesses mandate it? Denver7 heard multiple perspectives on the topic.

A history of mandates

There is a legal precedent for mandating vaccines in the U.S. that dates back to 1905.

The mandate stems from a U.S. Supreme Court case known as Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

In 1902, the city of Cambridge mandated smallpox immunizations for everyone over the age of 21 after an outbreak.

Local pastor Henning Jacobson refused to be vaccinated and was fined $5. Jacobson challenged the fine in court and the lawsuit eventually made its way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled 7-2 that the state did not violate the Fourteenth Amendment.

“In terms of a state and local vaccine mandate, the Supreme Court precedent is very clear that that would be acceptable when the vaccine is serving to address public health,” said Govind Persad, an assistant professor at the University of Denver Strum College of Law.

The Supreme Court justices, however, specified that cities and states must provide a medical exemption for someone who can prove a scientific reason for why they cannot or should not be vaccinated. The Supreme Court ruling did not, however, make room for a religious or ideological exemption so long as the law is applied equally to everyone regardless of race or gender.

Over the years, some states like Colorado have allowed for religious exemptions in the immunization schedule.

The ruling has been discussed in numerous cases over the years and Persad says it has been reaffirmed repeatedly.

More recently, the state of New York health officials issued a mandatory MMR vaccine order after a measles outbreak. The majority of the cases were reported within the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn.

A group of parents sued the city over the mandate, but a judged disagreed and upheld the order.

Persad believes it’s less likely that the federal government would try to order mandatory vaccines in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, but believes it is possible some cities and states will decide to do so once there are enough doses for everyone. Along with requiring residents to be immunized, Persad says they could also require visitors to show proof of being vaccinated.

Aside from local and state governments, businesses also have a right to require immunizations for both employees and customers, according to Persad.

“Some businesses certainly could do that and actually have done that for other types of vaccines,” Persad said.

Employers would, however, have to follow the Americans with Disabilities Act and provide reasonable accommodations to employees and customers who cannot get the vaccine for medical reasons.

A bigger challenge, however, would be for businesses trying to enforce the rule.

“In terms of customers there would be questions about how... when you’re trying to draft that kind of requirement as a business, how you would enforce it,” Persad said. “It’s easier to see whether somebody has got a mask on then to see whether they have been vaccinated.”

He believes a vaccine order could be a good thing in order to get rid of some of the other public health orders that have been issued over the past six months.

“By accepting one regulation, mandate, can we get rid of other regulations like business closures and like, school closures that are restricting peoples personal freedom more seriously?” Persad asked. “Can that really enhance personal freedom because they allow us to do things safely that we otherwise wouldn’t be able to do safely or be able to do it all?”

Uncharted territory

While some support the idea of a mandate, others are skeptical and say it would infringe on personal freedoms.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is an attorney and the president of the children’s Health Defense. He’s worried about how new the vaccine is and how complicated it is to get right.

“There’s a peculiar problem with the COVID vaccines that is almost unique,” Kennedy Jr. said.

He’s worried about the risk of antibody-mediated disease enhancement, which could cause a more serious reaction to coronaviruses by enhancing the disease rather than protecting against it.

ADE is considered to be rare and there is no proof that the phenomenon exists in COVID-19. However, Kennedy Jr. is worried about the possibility.

“I think it’s a healthy thing to question the pharmaceutical industry. I’m not anti-vaccine, although people call me anti-vaccine. I had all of my children vaccinated and if this vaccine says what people say it’s going to do, then I will take it, but we should be able to have a debate about that,” Kennedy Jr. said.

He believes the COVID-19 vaccine that is eventually approved will perform more like a flu vaccine and will require regular doses.

“I think that to be optimistic about getting a vaccine for the coronavirus that’s better than the flu vaccine is unlikely,” he said.

Kennedy Jr. also pointed out that the federal government has paid out billion in damages for vaccine injuries over the years.

Pharmaceutical companies in the U.S. cannot be sued as a result of the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. Instead, people who were injured by immunizations can file a claim with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

Critics of the program say only 10% of claims that are filed are paid out and many others go unfiled.

Beyond that, Kennedy Jr. is not sure the vaccine will be the end-all answer to the pandemic.

“I don’t think the vaccine is going to solve all the societal problems that people are hoping that it will solve. I think we’re much more likely to get that solution from therapeutic drugs,” he said.

Public health versus personal liberty

Del Bigtree, the host of Highwire with Del Bigtree and CEO of the Informed Consent Action Network, is also concerned with how quickly researchers are moving on this vaccine.

“The two most dangerous words ever put into one sentence are 'rush' and 'science.' We should never rush science,” Bigrtree said. “Even if this vaccine doesn’t come out until the middle of next year, that means the safety studies around it really only lasted, maybe, six months at best.”

He’s concerned about the potential long-term effects the vaccine can cause that might not be discovered for years, such as auto-immune disorders.

“These are all things that were essentially written about in science fiction novels and now we’re seeing them in action,” Bigtree said.

Despite this, Bigtree is convinced that as soon as a vaccine is approved for widespread use, certain states and businesses will move toward mandating it, something he believes breaks the Nuremberg Code.

The Nuremberg Code was developed after World War II and states that patients must provide explicit voluntary consent before participating in human experimentation.

Critics of this argument say an approved vaccine does not constitute human experimentation.

Regardless, Bigtree says he opposes the idea of mandates and he plans to fight any vaccine order.

“You can be assured that we will be doing everything we can to fight for people’s freedom and right to decide what is injected into them. We are not farm animals, we are free citizens,” he said. “I don’t think that the overall health is really the position of the United States government, our health is really our own decision.”

An uphill battle

If anyone knows about the potential pushback from the anti-vaccine community, it’s Rep. Kyle Mullica, a Democrat who represents Adams County.

Rep. Mullica is an ER nurse on the frontlines of the COVID-19 pandemic and a state lawmaker. Last session, he helped pass a bill aimed at boosting the state’s immunization rates by requiring parents to take additional steps if they do not want to vaccinate their children.

“It’s still was a struggle and it still was very contentious, and I think that that stems from just a lot of the misinformation that’s out there that’s been put on the internet,” Rep. Mullica said.

Colorado is still last in the country when it comes to kindergarten MMR vaccines.

Rep. Mullica believes the best way to combat the novel coronavirus pandemic is for enough people to be vaccinated to create herd immunity for those who cannot be immunized.

However, he insists no one on the state level is discussing the idea of a mandate right now and that there are other options instead.

“No one is looking at going to your house and tying you down and forcibly injecting you. That’s not something that I advocate for,” Rep. Mullica said. “What we can do is look at tools that are in the toolbelt.”

Those tools include information campaigns, among other things. Most importantly though, Rep. Mullica says he doesn’t believe the Food and Drug Administration would release anything that is dangerous.

When a vaccine is released, he will encourage people to get it for the sake of public health.

“Really, what it comes down to is thinking about something that’s bigger than yourself, thinking about your neighbors,” he said.

The race is on

Inside a laboratory on the Colorado State University Campus, researchers are making progress on four COVID-19 vaccine candidates.

Gregg Dean is the head of the department of microbiology, immunology and pathology at CSU working on the vaccine and says around the world, researchers are sharing more information than ever before.

“These are times like no other than any of us have seen so it takes extraordinary measures,” Dean said.

Typically, there are three phases to clinical trial, starting with a safety aspect. Despite the quicker work, Dean insists the process is still fundamentally the same.

In order for things to go back to normal, Dean says, countries need to be able to diagnose the disease, treat it and also prevent it.

He understands the concerns people may have about any new vaccines coming out.

“Everybody wants to have some certainty around the safety and advocacy of a vaccine. The idea that we may be rushing the process, whether that’s truly the case or not, it’s concerning for a lot of individuals and that’s so understandable,” Dean said.

He doesn’t necessarily like the idea of mandating a vaccine because he thinks it’s a distraction that can co-opt the discussion.

“My opinion is, we really need to focus on communication and getting information out. This is a time for us to build the communication relationship and trust,” Dean said.

With better communication, Dean believes Coloradans will step up and participate in the vaccine strategy when it is improved.

A different question

During a recent news conference, Governor Jared Polis said the focus for the immediate future won’t be making sure the right people are vaccinated.

“There will be limited dosage available as a vaccine comes online, so the real question that the federal government and the states will deal with based on the advice of medical professionals is, how do you prioritize?” Gov. Polis said.

He is now working with health officials to identify the groups who should be prioritized, such as frontline workers and people who are at a higher risk of suffering from serious complications from COVID-19.

“How can we make sure that we have the highest and best use of the limited supply available in our state is the real question that will begin to grapple with,” Gov. Polis said.

To mandate or not

In research labs around the world, scientists are working quickly to find a COVID-19 vaccine.

Pharmaceutical companies are already reporting promising results for their trials.

However, once a new vaccine is approved, convincing millions of Americans to get it could be a different challenge altogether.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: billgates; blm; cdc; cnn; coronavirus; covid19; epstein; fakenews; fauci; gasdr; gasdrtroll; mandates; mandatory; mastersoftheuniverse; melindagates; microsoft; militaryenforced; nevertrumpers; orgyisland; pedoisland; science; trumpsaysno; trumpsaysyes; trumpvaccine; trustmeimadr; vaccine
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To: DoodleBob

Absolutely NOT, no therapeutic or prevention measure should ever be compelled. The first principle of bioethics is autonomy — the patient has the right to make his own decisions given informed consent of all the risks, benefits, and alternatives.


21 posted on 09/07/2020 7:53:07 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: Deaf Smith

Or anyone who does not want to get CoVID — but screw them, apparently, is your belief.


22 posted on 09/07/2020 7:53:54 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: LastDayz

As a healthcare worker, I do not need anyone to come for me — I will happily get the vaccine at my earliest opportunity.


23 posted on 09/07/2020 7:55:01 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: Yogafist

Or I suppose you dont see the reason to give into informed science either.


24 posted on 09/07/2020 7:57:11 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: MayflowerMadam

Yep.... thankfully that part of my life is over.

Unfortunately, getting the youngest to keep the grand-babies out is gonna be fun.


25 posted on 09/07/2020 7:58:06 PM PDT by LastDayz (A blunt and brazen Texan. I will not be assimilated.)
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To: El Cid

Why dont you round with me in the ICU sometime and see what this disease does in its end stage — you would sh*t your pants, turn into a puddle, and beg for a cure. The fact of the patter is that prevention is better than cure (Oath of Hippocrates)

If you choose to answer, please stay on point, and answer not what you want to, but to the facts at hand.


26 posted on 09/07/2020 7:59:21 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: DoodleBob

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27 posted on 09/07/2020 7:59:31 PM PDT by HypatiaTaught (Ovid- A Sheep. Baa Baa)
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To: ransomnote

“People who believe the vaccine is needed to protect them can get a vaccine. Those who are not vaccinated are not a threat to those who are vaccinated.”

BINGO!


28 posted on 09/07/2020 8:00:44 PM PDT by chuckb87
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To: gas_dr

“As a healthcare worker, I do not need anyone to come for me — I will happily get the vaccine at my earliest opportunity.”

So sorry..... not interested at all as it’s nothing more than another corona-virus albeit a somewhat modified one.


29 posted on 09/07/2020 8:00:57 PM PDT by LastDayz (A blunt and brazen Texan. I will not be assimilated.)
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To: HypatiaTaught

That’s awesome..... too bad I haven’t figured out how to save it.


30 posted on 09/07/2020 8:02:06 PM PDT by LastDayz (A blunt and brazen Texan. I will not be assimilated.)
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To: gas_dr

“As a healthcare worker, I do not need anyone to come for me — I will happily get the vaccine at my earliest opportunity.”

Can you tell us what facility you work at so we can avoid it. Obviously you went to a school in CA where anybody can get a degree.


31 posted on 09/07/2020 8:03:44 PM PDT by chuckb87
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To: gas_dr
Their/your choice.

Most everyday at work, I am exposed to blood, urine and body fluids. Have been so for 6.5 years.

I have my proper PPE, good hygiene habits and not touching my face.

You others?

Quite picking your nose.

32 posted on 09/07/2020 8:03:46 PM PDT by Deaf Smith (When a Texan takes his chances, chances will be taken that's for sure)
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To: DoodleBob

Sure!, and the proof of being tested should be worn publically on your head, or on your right hand to prove it, and you should be prevented from buying or selling anything unless you have the mark.

*sigh*

I am not usually an end times person.. but this shit is scary.


33 posted on 09/07/2020 8:04:39 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009
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To: Deaf Smith

WTF is your point. Everyday at work I think I probably take a bigger exposure than you — so I am happy to get the vaccine as my job is uncontrolled exposures, unlike, apparently, yours.


34 posted on 09/07/2020 8:05:03 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: wastedyears

This! They ain’t screwing with my DNA. And they won’t stop with just one vaccination either. Not gonna take one.


35 posted on 09/07/2020 8:06:01 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper
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To: gas_dr
God bless you.

I wouldn't dream of blocking access to a vaccination center or physicians office of hospital/clinic for people who WANT a vaccine. There are a lot of mental calculations backing up that decision, which may include Comorbidities. Indeed, this is (largely) why I don't complain too much about wearing a mask in a store. Not every slightly ill person can have things delivered, and frankly getting out is good for people mentally.

You've been a consistent voice here for the past few months. Thanks.

36 posted on 09/07/2020 8:06:58 PM PDT by DoodleBob (Gravity's waiting period is about 9.8 m/s^2)
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To: gas_dr

Is that the same science that was telling me 30 or so years ago I couldn’t live where I currently live due to global warming?


37 posted on 09/07/2020 8:08:21 PM PDT by Yogafist
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To: DoodleBob

Health care workers will be first, but optional, kids will be next, parental approval needed but “strongly” suggested. Then the rest of us.

I don’t get the flu vaccine unless I’m in the workforce handling cash, or traveling a lot for work. That hasn’t happened for me in several years.

I am not keen on vaccines unless I’m out and about in the world in an active way, meaning the above circumstances.

Since I am somewhat retired, I don’t feel that I’m terribly at risk for contracting most communicable diseases. I don’t think the benefits outweigh the risks for me personally. So I do not plan on getting the CoVid vaccine once it’s available. I might change my mind, but right now, that’s how I lean.


38 posted on 09/07/2020 8:10:19 PM PDT by FamiliarFace
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To: DoodleBob

Thank you for your kind words, I am really trying to not be salty however, I have treated (as I previously states) over 1000 patients in critical care with this disease. If we can prevent it, I am a huge advocate for this.

But I also genuinely believe in freedom and autonomy. I see nothing wrong with the scientific process that has been implemented. I believe that American scientists have actually accomplished something quite amazing, and we should be waving the flag and shouting our success

I struggle with the Stem cell question. I have extensively looked at it — there are not fetal cells in the actual vaccine, however there have been some stem cells used in the research — this is the age old dilemma and its a tough call. I dont have a perfect answer for it.

I have not revealed a lot about myself because its irrelevant, but I am a bit of a lard ass, and need to lose weight. Being in the critical care units for 104 straight days under stress is not optimal for healthy weight loss (but this is on me - I really dont have to eat those cookies at 3 AM). So I think comorbid conditions are a part of the equation.

What I truly believe is that there is nothing new under the sun. I believe that we have her immunity in my location and this looks like every other pandemic in the world. It has been weaponized. But as conservatives, we have a God given brain. I think the vaccine is truly the opening of the flood gates to normalcy. The liberals even said this, and they are caught with their pants down that the president has delivered. I believe that they had no inkling it could be done. It demonstrates the true grace and ability of freedom loving people.

I will never advocate for forced anything, I believe that the patient has the right to choose once all the cards are on the table.

I suppose this is a lengthy apology as it drives me crazy when nonfactual arguments are repeated.

Thank you for your consistent view point and for presenting a balanced argument as well. Be well my FRiend. I will probably be a little more tolerable tomorrow as it is my first day off since March 14.


39 posted on 09/07/2020 8:16:24 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: gas_dr; Lazamataz
Laz posted this article in April that (I believe) paints a pretty accurate and sober picture about this virus - "although the lungs are ground zero, its reach can extend to many organs including the heart and blood vessels, kidneys, gut, and brain.

I may not want the vaccine and I also think many States went into overkill on their lockdowns.

But that was no boating accident, and this isn't a "normal" virus. It is almost like it was engineered to be this bad.

40 posted on 09/07/2020 8:16:42 PM PDT by DoodleBob (Gravity's waiting period is about 9.8 m/s^2)
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