Posted on 03/31/2017 6:59:46 AM PDT by markomalley
You have seen, I take it, that our vice president has outed himself as a cultural criminal of the first order by revealing that, like some conservative Christian men, he doesn’t put himself in situations where he could be tempted to compromise his marital vows, or be plausibly accused of same. He never eats alone with another woman, or goes to events where alcohol is served unless his wife is with him. This is pretty quaintly conservative, admittedly, and not something I would do. But I can’t fault the guy, especially given the life politicians have to live. If I were Mrs. Pence, I would surely be grateful.
To no one’s surprise, this has earned Pence denunciation from the more progressive protuberances of the body politic. Emma Green, in customary form, does a good job examining what this weird episode tells us about Americans and gender. Excerpts:
Some folks—mostly journalists and entertainers on Twitter—have reacted with surprise, anger, and sarcasm to the Pence family rule. Socially liberal or non-religious people may see Pence’s practice as misogynistic or bizarre. For a lot of conservative religious people, though, this set-up probably sounds normal, or even wise. The dust-up shows how radically notions of gender divide American culture.
Were the Pences Orthodox Jews or practicing Muslims, nobody would have batted an eye. But they’re Evangelical Christians, so that means it’s open season on tearing them apart.
Pence told The Hill in 2002 that his practice is about building a zone of protection around his marriage. Green:
The 2002 article notes that Pence arrived in Congress a half decade after the 1994 “Republican revolution,” when Newt Gingrich was the speaker of the House. Several congressional marriages, including Gingrich’s, encountered difficulty that year. Pence seemed wary of this. “I’ve lost more elections than I’ve won,” he said. “I’ve seen friends lose their families. I’d rather lose an election.” He even said he gets fingers wagged in his face by concerned Indianans. “Little old ladies come and say, ‘Honey, whatever you need to do, keep your family together,’” he told TheHill.
These comments show that the Pences have a distinctively conservative approach toward family, sex, and gender. This is by no means the way that all Christians, or even all evangelical Christians like the Pences, navigate married life. But traditional religious people from other backgrounds may practice something similar. Many Orthodox Jews follow the laws of yichud, which prohibit unmarried men and women from being alone in a closed room together. Some Muslim men and women also refuse to be together alone if they’re not married. These practices all have different histories and origins, but they’re rooted in the same belief: The sanctity of marriage should be protected, and sexual immorality should be guarded against at all costs.
Again, this is not a set of precautions I, as a Christian, would take, or feel it necessary to take, but I admire the Pences for the seriousness with which they take their marriage vows. Mike Pence is willing to be thought a countercultural weirdo for the sake of doing right by his wife, his kids, and his God. That’s totally admirable in my book.
One more bit from Green:
That some people are so quick to be angered—and others are totally unsurprised—shows how divided America has become about the fundamental claim embedded in the Pence family rule: that understandings of gender should guide the boundaries around people’s everyday interactions, and protecting a marriage should take precedence over all else, even if the way of doing it seems strange to some, and imposes costs on others.
HuffPo puffed a gay couple who started a store catering to diaper-wearing pervs, but ran a piece criticizing the Pences as weirdos for the patriarchy. Given their standards (if “standards” is the word), I would take criticism from HuffPo as a compliment.
Somebody put on Twitter this deeply affecting World magazine piece showcasing the hard lessons that Mark Souder, a Republican Congressman from Indiana and religious-right stalwart, learned after his longterm adulterous affair with a staffer became public. Souder talks in the piece about his own terrible failure, and how his life as a Washington politician set him up to fall. Here’s an excerpt from that 2010 piece relevant to our discussion today:
Mike Pence, R-Ind., took the Quayles’ advice and moved his family (with three children then under the age of 8) after winning election in 2000. Later, when Mike and Karen Pence’s fourth-grade son broke his collarbone on the playground at school, the congressman was able to come to the emergency room straight from Capitol Hill. Karen was composed until he walked into the room, then melted. “I realized, I’m really glad he’s here and I don’t have to do this all by myself,” she recalled.
Karen Pence talked with me about how she sits down with her husband’s scheduler to scrutinize school calendars so they can map out days that Mike needs to be available to his family: “Not only do my kids need Mike, Mike needs the kids.” She doesn’t prescribe a Washington move for everyone: “We were blessed that our kids were at an age where they could move easily. . . . Every family has to make its own choice.”
Some legislators fill their Capitol Hill offices with family pictures, not only to impress constituents but to remind themselves. When Mike Pence took office in 2001, Karen installed a red landline phone in his Capitol Hill office-and only she knew the number. It’s a bit of a gimmick now, since she can connect with him on his BlackBerry much more easily, but the phone sticks out as a reminder.
Plainly these are horrible neo-Amish trolls who deserve pop culture’s disdain. Meanwhile, anybody heard lately from Carlos Danger? Wonder what Huma Abedin thinks about the Pence arrangement…
UPDATE: Great comment by Mark:
Evangelicals are hypocrites for voting for Trump given the disrespect he has for marriage, and his willingness to defile the marriage bed. Because that’s Bad For Women.
Evangelicals are crazy religious fanatics for having rules like Pence’s for safeguarding marriage, and avoiding even situations that might begin a pattern that could flower into defiling the marriage bed. Because that’s Bad For Women.
Luke chapter 7:
31 “To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like? 32 They are like children who sit in the market place and call to one another, and they say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.’ 33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”When the heart is corrupted, everything looks foolish and corrupt.
Pence is a smart guy.
I follow those same rules myself.
I’ve seen what happens to guys who let their guard down around females and oftentimes it’s not a pretty sight.
Looks like my grandparents and great-aunts.
Never again will we see the like of the last century and a half.
Far more probable they would line you and me against a wall.
Or do their best (and last) to try.
He would probably give her a lecture on trust and her being insecure.
But (sane) spouses are insecure because you have given them a reason to be.
By the time they are asking you for something like that it is generally too late.
I have always appreciated Truman as a historic figure and personality. He seemed to be a decent, common-sense guy. He reminds me of some of the old-timers I knew while growing up. We lost a lot when we lost that generation.
Reminds me of Dinesh D’Souza, “I was just sharing a hotel room with a young, female staff member. Why would anyone think that’s a problem?”
The other person is the problem, you are just being logical.
Actually you are being a real jerk and rubbing the other person's face in the fact that you care nothing for them.
After the divorce or separation you will cry about how you were always the perfect spouse. And polite people will have to restrain their desire to throw things at your oblivious head.
“I didn’t have any other choice” but to have all those private meetings ...
You would think, with the divorce rate we have, that more people would recognize that staying married isn’t easy. “It just didn’t work out,” one hears, as if there weren’t two adults involved, each making conscious choices.
Reminds me of the song, "Everybody Knows".
What is making me sad is how many people on FR on this and other threads on this subject show that they just don't understand.
Putting aside the career aspects of it, this is saying to your spouse that you will not put yourself into a position where you or they will even be tempted to doubt.
It is a gift, freely given and even more precious for that.
Is being kind and considerate to your spouse so "old fashioned" and "fuddy-duddy"?
If so I would venture to say that I now know what is killing off marriage.
Seems like it is, to a lot of people.
I often read comments here and draw the conclusion that there's not much hope of improvement for the country.
It's called "living life your way."
I believe that's called "freedom of choice" and is the AMERICAN WAY.
I agree on that.
There is nothing wrong with a traditional Christian marriage. I wish mine had been one as we would have been a lot happier. Too bad the Left is so clueless
>> they just don’t understand.
Doubtful it’s a matter of understanding.
Just guessing... the regard for women as intriguing females in the workplace is far less significant than it once was.
Agreed. Non-issue. Personal choice.
And they saved money by sleeping in the same bed.
They can try.And they could do it, who knows, stranger things have have happened. But one thing for sure is that they won’t be as many of them around when it is finished as they were when they started.
Liberal wives, and liberal husbands, get their hearts broken and get their lives ruined when their spouses cheat on them as well. Guaranteeing your spouse you are not going to have sex with someone else can only be a good thing.
Pretending men and women thrown together often enough would never become attracted is quite anti nature.
Orthodox Jews never can be alone with someone of the opposite sex other than their children or parents or spouse.
BTTT for Pence!
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