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Does Immigration Harm Working Americans?
The Atlantic ^ | 05 Jan 2015 | David Frum

Posted on 01/07/2015 8:38:44 AM PST by Theoria

Many economists say no—but they may be too glib.

The job news is increasingly good: 321,000 jobs created in November. Yet the national economic mood remains grimly bleak.

Many Americans feel a sharp distinction between what’s said about “the” economy and what they experience in “their” economy. At the top of the income distribution, wages are rising. In the middle and bottom, wages stagnate. Jobs are created, yes—but native-born Americans are not hired for them.

Last month, the Center for Immigration Studies released its latest jobs study. CIS, a research organization that tends to favor tight immigration policies, found that even now, almost seven years after the collapse of Lehman Brothers, 1.5 million fewer native-born Americans are working than in November 2007, the peak of the prior economic cycle. Balancing the 1.5 million fewer native-born Americans at work, there are 2 million more immigrants—legal and illegal—working in the United States today than in November 2007. All the net new jobs created since November 2007 have gone to immigrants. Meanwhile, millions of native-born Americans, especially men, have abandoned the job market altogether. The percentage of men aged 25 to 54 who are working or looking for work has dropped to the lowest point in recorded history.


Labor Force Participation Rate Among Men Aged 25 to 54, 2004-2014

                                                                                     Bureau of Labor Statistics    

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: aliens; corporatewelfare; economy; h1b; illegal; illegalalien; immigration; jobs; nafta
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To: ansel12

The level of education and the desirability of the immigrant is generally better for legal immigrants. Some legal immigrants are very useful and provide skills that are in short supply. I guess you could say legal immigrants contribute to suppressing wages, but this country was founded by people coming from other places. So, I don’t have a problem with controlled legal immigration. However, I have a big problem with illegals though.


21 posted on 01/07/2015 1:13:19 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: ansel12

I am in agreement with you. What I was doing is pointing out how someone could parse words to try to prove that immigrants don’t hurt working people. It’s a lie.


22 posted on 01/07/2015 1:23:44 PM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: 3Fingas

There is little difference between legal and illegal, except how quickly the democrat party can get them voting and into the system, that is why they passed JFK’s 1965 Immigration Act after his death.

This country was not created by immigrants and mass and exotic immigration became a success of the left in the mid 1800s, when we started getting our first mass immigration, and the immigration that we are discussing right now and which is destroying America, and in fact has already destroyed it, came from 1965 when the Democrats controlled all of government, and knew that traditional Americans did not, and do not vote democrat.

It is a silly game to play to pretend that immigration is just fine, as long as it meets the democrat party’s law.


23 posted on 01/07/2015 1:30:57 PM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: Theoria
Does Immigration Harm Working Americans?

Does the KILLING of 3,300 future Americans EVERY WORKING DAY in this country 'harm working americans'?

24 posted on 01/08/2015 5:09:17 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Theoria
Labor Force Participation Rate Among Men Aged 25 to 54, 2004-2014

Huh?

Compared to WHAT?

Could this not merely be the fact that the 'force' is increasingly made up of YOUNGER workers?

25 posted on 01/08/2015 5:10:49 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BlackAdderess
I now have a non-native delivering my mail

What does this MEAN?

And HOW do you know it?

26 posted on 01/08/2015 5:11:54 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ansel12
I now have a non-native delivering my mail

I seem to recall learning about a time when illegals were shipped to this country, crammed into the holds of fetid ships, to work for NO wages!

27 posted on 01/08/2015 5:14:31 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 3Fingas
Some legal immigrants are very useful and provide skills that are in short supply.

Such as??

28 posted on 01/08/2015 5:15:39 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Enterprise
What I was doing is pointing out how someone could parse words to try to prove that immigrants don’t hurt working people. It’s a lie.

Likewise...

... someone could parse words to try to prove that immigrants (no modifiers???) DO hurt working people.

29 posted on 01/08/2015 5:17:27 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ansel12
This country was not created by immigrants...


30 posted on 01/08/2015 5:18:54 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 3Fingas
are very useful and provide skills that are in short supply at the wages being offered.

Fixed.

31 posted on 01/08/2015 5:21:43 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Elsie

That isn’t my quote you are responding to someone else posted that.


32 posted on 01/08/2015 6:29:38 AM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: Elsie

Those aren’t immigrants, and they aren’t United States citizens.


33 posted on 01/08/2015 6:32:23 AM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: ansel12

Everyone here, except for American Indians, came from somewhere else. Even, the Indians, if the certain theories are true, came from Asia. So, legal immigration has played a critical role in the development of this country. I get your objections with immigration post 1965. I agree with you on that. I disagree that there is any difference between legal and illegal immigration. One is driven by people who follow the law and are motivated to become American citizens. The other is driven by law-breakers, generally of inferior educational backgrounds, who want to enjoy the privileges of this country, but are not willing to follow the rule of law as all legal immigrants have in the past.


34 posted on 01/08/2015 8:22:40 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: 3Fingas

Everyone came from somewhere else, including Indians, that doesn’t make them immigrants.

America was founded by Brits, who moved to British land and then had a revolution and created the greatest nation that has ever been, not immigrants.

Immigration didn’t really start in America until about 1850, and then they started flooding in and changing us.

Today, legal and illegal makes no real difference except temporarily to the individual immigrant and their kids, an illegal from 1975 and a legal from 1975, have the same effect on our culture and the democrat party, the difference being that the legal immigrant gets to vote democrat sooner, than the illegal.


35 posted on 01/08/2015 8:33:35 AM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: Elsie

Statesmen, doctors, scientists, engineers, computer programmers, and skilled tradesmen. Think Alexander Hamilton, Einstein, William H. Pickering, Nikola Tesla, Igor Sikorsky, Linus Torvalds, etc. The list is long. Those are the good kinds of legal immigrants we have gotten. Nevertheless, our current immigration policy is a joke. We do not strive for quality. The Australians have a much more sensible immigration policy in that regard than we do.


36 posted on 01/08/2015 8:40:45 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: 3Fingas

You support the same policy that the left does, replace the American voter with foreigners who will vote democrat, and in an already overcrowded nation of 320 million people, heading to a future of being a billion people and looking like the city in Bladerunner.

And Alexander Hamilton wasn’t an immigrant.


37 posted on 01/08/2015 9:01:27 AM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: ansel12

Alexander Hamilton was born in the West Indies and immigrated to what would become the US at age 11....and no I don’t support the policies of the left. I believe in controlled, quality-seeking, immigration policies. I know that immigration has been very important to this country and I welcome people who want to become Americans and accept our Constitution and way of life.


38 posted on 01/08/2015 9:16:00 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: 3Fingas

Hamilton was born British on British soil, and moved to some other British soil, and then became an original American when he helped form the country of the United States.

You are a cheer leader for the destruction of the United States, the left applauds you.

You are expressing support for the left’s immigration laws.


39 posted on 01/08/2015 9:35:00 AM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: ansel12

I did it again; didn’t I??

;^)


40 posted on 01/08/2015 10:26:22 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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