Christian Professor Claims Genetics Disproves Historical Adam

Institute for Creation Research ^ | 8-26-11 | Brian Thomas

[fishtank]

National Public Radio recently interviewed Trinity Western University biologist Dennis Venema, who stated his belief that humans did not descend from Adam and Eve.1 Venema, an evangelical evolutionist, claimed that genetics studies show "there is no way we can be traced back to a single couple."2 Do the data really contradict the biblical account of human history?

"Given the genetic variation of people today, [Venema] says scientists can't get that [starting] population size below 10,000 people at any time in our evolutionary history," NPR reported.2 But this claim fails for three reasons. First, it relies on the presumption of "evolutionary history," not scientific data. Second, the idea that an initial group of 10,000 humans evolved from primates is mathematically impossible. Third, a descent from Adam and Eve actually does explain the patterns in modern human genetics....

[Publius6961]

I guess this doofus Christian professor never heard of "the proof of African Eve." That was the final word, about 40 years ago.

So much for clever flash in the pan theories...

[Publius6961]

Creationists should know this one ~ did God install the Heart first, or the Liver?

Good question.
Evolutionist should know this one- How long between the totally random accidental appearance of the liver did the totally random accidental appearance of the heart take place?

And how long before (or after) that did the totally random accidental appearance of the (empty) body take place?

I keep forgetting to stop beating myself on the head with a hammer.
It feels so good when I stop.
I feel the same about evo-credo threads...

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

But if each day was really a million or a billion years like some try to clain, then Adam's life only spanned a few minutes or a few seconds of this "day". Sin would have entered the world through the fall before the 6th day even ended. Or, if you claim that God made Adam on the very last bit of the 6th million-year-day, then sin entered the world on the seventh million-year-day, and then God wouldn't have been able to say that everything was good on the 7th day.

Also, plants were created several days before insects. So they just pollinated themselves for millions or billions of years?

[muawiyah]

My answer is “several universes ago, maybe longer”.

[Publius6961]

My answer is “several universes ago, maybe longer”.

A great universal answer.

pun intended...

[GourmetDan]

"And incidentally, humans didn't evolve from apes: humans, apes, chimps, gibbons and gorillas all evolved from some common ancestor who, like the mammoth and eohippus, is no longer with us."

And we know that the habitat of the 'common ancestor' no longer exists because the 'common ancestor' no longer exists. Just like the mammoth habitat no longer exists because the mammoth no longer exists and the eohippus habitat no longer exists because the eohippus no longer exists. But the coelacanth habitat still exists because the coelacanth still exists.

Evolution is really easy that way. So easy that a cave-man can do it...

[GiovannaNicoletta]

So what does that say?

That we all evolved from the same baboon? /sarc

[Mach9]

No grenade. It’s the only thing that really makes sense to those who believe, and I stress believe, in evolutionary theory which, at this point in our scientific knowledge, is no more provable than creationism. The “dust of the earth” might as well be gorillas or chimps, but a whole lot more data is needed to make it a fact.

[ZULU]

Not yet, but I will

[13Sisters76]

Galatians 6:7

[tractorman]

There are quite a few words in Hebrew that mean “day”.
But only one that means 24 hours and that was the word used in Genesis.

[Jack Hydrazine]

Instead of using the word ‘accident’ I will use the other ‘a’ word - abiogenesis. Ever heard of it? It’s a Greek concept, not a Jewish one.

It happens to be in conflict with the Dr. Louis Pasteur’s theory of biogenesis which says life can only give life. This has its basis in the Torah.

[CanaGuy]

The two books that spun me firmly into the ID camp concerning the origin of cellular life at the micro-biological level are:

"Signature in the Cell" by S.C.Meyer, and
"Darwin's Black Box" by M.J.Behe

The first book for its detail on the probability of random chance evolution suddenly providing a multi-level, hierarchical code needed for the first cell to replicate; and the second book, for its micro and macro discussions of how multiple chemical feedback loops could have developed to produce blood clotting, or the huge chain of requirements needed for the first eyeball to function.

Fascinating reading, folks. Highly recommended.

[FromTheSidelines]

Instead of using the word ‘accident’ I will use the other ‘a’ word - abiogenesis. Ever heard of it? It’s a Greek concept, not a Jewish one.

I've heard of it... Why are you now switching the word you're using? You used the word accident, now you want to use abiogenesis. Fine. What does either have to do with evolution?

And I'm still curious about what proof's been found that shows life was created by a 3 headed god springing forth from a lotus flower that grew from the navel of another god, who was relaxing in the coils of a giant snake...

[a66rve]

A more honest assessment 'cartoon' of the belief systems of creationism and evolutionism is:

Evolutionist scientists have assumptions+facts; the same as 

creationist scientists have assumptions+facts.  

They look at the same evidence and using their assumptions come away with different conclusions.

However, there is a slight advantage to the creationist scientists, since they use an infallible and inerrant history book. 

Science is a constantly changing observational understanding of the universe.  

Why do college students buy new science books each year ??? 

[djf]

Gen 1:20

“And God said, ‘Let the waters move and bring forth the moving creature that hath life’”

Lotta folks seem to ignore that one...

I agree with your stand.

[jazztrptman]

I graduated from Trinity Western University back when it was Trinity Junior College. I know its roots and its theology. Dr. Venema is out on a very lonely limb and I suspect the board or administration will use their saw and cut the limb.

Those that care to debate him can reach him at: Dennis.Venema@twu.ca

TWU is located in Langley, BC and is an evangelical, fundamentalist university that is well respected in Canada. It was founded by the Evangelical Free Church of America in the early 1960’s. Between the college and denomination, I suspect Dennis Venema will be asked to find employment elsewhere.

[djf]

“EAch of us has the same number of ancestors.”

Huh?

You could belong to a society that encouraged marriage and childbearing as soon as someone enters puberty.
Alternatively, you could belong to a society that encouraged waiting until someone was in their thirties to have children.

Over time, the first society is going to be more populous and have a greater number of generations than the second.

Your logic (and I hesitate to use that word!) is faulty.

[nolongerademocrat]

Annunaki alert.

[dhs12345]

If you can ignore the fact that it is Glover narrating, it is very interesting.

Talks about genetics and the ability to count the number of generations back to eve through the mitochondrial DNA. The origins of modern humans are Africa. I think ~ 75K years ago.

One thing that was most interesting was when they compared the DNA of a lady from Greece with a Native American.... and proved that they were related, albeit, distantly.

Don’t buy it. Rent it from the library. Or look for it on Cable.