Custer and Little Bighorn: 135 years ago and questions remain

The Dickinson Press ^ | June 25, 2011

[EveningStar]

Today marks the 135 anniversary of the Battle of the Little Big Horn near present day Garryowen, Mont. After all this time the death of Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer remains a mystery.

[bcsco]

Now you’ve got me. I’m not familiar with that at all. I’m not a big Hollywood fan, so my knowledge of contemporary movies is minimal at best. The last movie I saw in a theater was “Dances With Wolves” back in ‘90. Yes, I do rent on a very minimal occasion, but mostly Westerns. That’s just me...

[unkus]

Thanks for the very good synopsis.

I also agree on the “fragging”.

[Montanabound]

I like your stories. Keep ‘em coming, please.

[tarheelswamprat]

They crept up the gullies and ravines and basically kept hidden until they could bring superior firepower down on the troopers.

That's what I was told as well, and it was obvious to see when I was there.

Another interesting thing about my visit was that there were archaeology teams there excavating the previously undiscovered bodies/skeletons of troopers who had fallen along the deadly advance toward the final stand. These remains were located down slope from the top of the ridge along which the column was advancing, on both the left and right. The spots where they fell were marked by little plots of white flags.

The archaeologists I talked with said they didn't know why these men had become separated from the column. Perhaps they were lured away by Indians popping up from cover and taking shots. If they broke ranks and charged those targets they'd be vulnerable to other shooters from different cover.

Nor did they know why these bodies were missed in the subsequent collections by the relief forces who arrived later. I was told that the grass which grows on those slopes had quickly hidden the bodies, eventually growing into a matted covering. The reason they were discovered in the mid-80's were due to a severe drought which cause the grass cover to die off, revealing the white bones and shiny metal buckles and buttons, etc.

It was a humbling and somewhat eerie experience. By an accident of timing, I not only visited the battle sight but I actually saw the bodies/remains of some of Custer's men in situ. Unfortunately, I was not allowed to take pictures, so all I have is the memory.

[P-Marlowe]

After all this time the death of Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer remains a mystery.

There have been more books written about that battle than any other battle in American history. If there is any mystery it is not because of a lack of investigation into the event. If anything there has been too much written about it.

[BlackElk]

I have read that Custer had provided regular army protection to Chivington's militia in the attack on a Cheyenne village in Colorado (Sand Creek?), that all of the young men were out hunting, that their chief was the elderly Black Kettle who had long since made peace with the Grant administration. Custer did not actually attack. The Chivington Massacre was a rank disgrace in which the victims were the elderly, the disabled, the children. One trooper showed a captured infant to Chivington and asked whether he should kill the child to obey Chivington's orders to kill every Indian. Chivington replied: "Nits become lice."

And, as Paul Harvey used to say: Here is the rest of the story. A girl in the village had been impregnated by Custer and bore him a daughter with blonde hair. When he abandoned her, she became unmarriageable and an outcast. Whether she was killed in the massacre, I do not recall. THEN, Custer backed up Chivington much later. One Cheyenne warrior when to Little Big Horn with the specific intent of killing Custer and, about 25 years later, claimed/admitted his success.

[Flag_This]

"How on earth could you have contempt for such a man!"

"Contempt" isn't a word I would use to describe Custer either; but would you agree that Custer seemed to have changed dramatically after the Civil War?

It just seems like a different man is using the same name. Men who served under him - and admired him - during the War ended up hating his guts out West. He got Court Martialed because he basically abandoned his command to get home to Libby, he apparently abandoned Major Elliot to his fate at the Washita, he ordered summary executions of deserters... He exhibited traits out west that no soldier would admire or respect - traits that were not mentioned during the Civil War.

He baffles me.

[tarheelswamprat]

The USA officers never could seem to get it through their heads that charging out into tall grass was like strolling into a modern fire-sack. ... This year, there is so much rain and cool weather that the grass is already put over three feet deep. A little warmth and this native grass will be up to the chest of most of the average sized calvary soldier of that day.

Thanks, Dave, this explains how the bodies of those men who I described in post #84 could have been missed by the burial details. Of course, the fact that they were aware that there might be several thousand hostile Indians still lurking nearby could have impacted the thoroughness of their searches as well.

[unkus]

Thank you for that.

My Dad was a young Company Commander in the 7th Cav. while it was still mounted. He transferred out six months or so before Pearl Harbor.

As kids we would whistle the Gary Owen tune with our Dad.

[Michael.SF.]

Exactly. They changed their tactics, Custer did not.

[Michael.SF.]

I would agree with all of what you have said.

Custer and Obama have/had the commonality of self confidence in themselves.

[Michael.SF.]

did I miss the sarcasm tag?

[GATOR NAVY]

Everything I’ve read says it was George Custer’s brother, Capt. Tom Custer, who was found with his heart cut out.

[Michael.SF.]

Predicting the future moves of an opponent is a difficult task, at best.

[BlackElk]

Did you forget the sarcasm tag? Custer may have had some modest success on occasion during the late unpleasantries between the states but he often displayed qualities of rebellious misbehavior, recklessness and rank idiocy out West.

[driftless2]

I visited the site about eight years ago. It’s great to see the actual topography as compared to seeing the Hollyweird view.

[Flag_This]

"I have read that Custer had provided regular army protection to Chivington's militia in the attack on a Cheyenne village in Colorado (Sand Creek?)"

You may be confusing two different fights - both of which included Black Kettle. The Sand Creek fight occurred during the Civil War, so Custer was very busy back east fighting Confederates at that time and was not in the neighborhood. If I remember correctly, Black Kettle was at Sand Creek when the fight happened.

A few years later, at the Washita, Black Kettle was killed when the 7th Cav (led by Custer this time)attacked his village.

Black Kettle and his band were peaceful, but all along that very same river were encamped other bands that absolutely were not peaceful - go ask Major Elliot.

I read a book by a trooper that was severely wounded and nearly killed at the Washita. According to him, the cav scouts cut the trail of some indians which they followed back to Black Kettle's camp. The indians in that area were supposed to be hostile. The cavalry reached the camp at night and set up for the attack in the predawn darkness. The Army attacked at first light, so there was no way of knowing Black Kettle was around until it was too late.

[max americana]

>Now you’ve got me. I’m not familiar with that at all. I’m not a big Hollywood fan, so my knowledge of contemporary movies is minimal at best.<

If this was in regard to my last story, Oliver Stone wanted the trifecta of Republican presidents to insult. He made the movie “Nixon” with Anthony Hopkins, “Bush” with another lib a-hole and wanted “Reagan”, but the studios said no.

@ Montanabound...

This is the last for the night. Jon Favreau (Iron Man director) is a libertarian and patriotic. The original script was that Tony Stark was supposed to become Iron Man because of the fault of the US military. Favreau just said “I’ll look into it”. Favreau completely re-hauled the script while he was at FatBurger with the first unit team and shot the Middle east kidnap scene in 2 weeks before the Paramount censor guys got a whiff on the script changes.

The original script was that Tony Stark was supposed to have a hole in the chest because he was investigating some crimes in Iraq by the US military. Favreau hated it. As a middle finger, he made it so as pro-military as possible because the first idea came from lefty Stan Lee. When the Paramount bigwigs knew about it, they were already in the original Iron Man escape scene and were $40 million in the hole so any re-writes/re-shoots were out of the question. Favreau supposedly said “oh my bad, I must have had the wrong storyboard sent to me”.

[BlackElk]

I have a great book on it but it is not handy. I will try to remember to locate it and ID it for you tomorrow.

[Interesting Times]

Predicting the future moves of an opponent is a difficult task, at best.

Competent military leaders pay more attention to enemy capabilities than to past behavior.