Posted on 04/26/2010 3:49:38 PM PDT by jerry557
Among debt collectors, Steven Katz is known as a “credit terrorist.” For years, he has run what he calls the Steven Katz School of Bill Collector Education, otherwise known as the “credit terrorist training camp.”
Mr. Katz, a 58-year-old accountant in suburban Tucson, spends his free time schooling debtors on the finer points of consumer protection law to help them turn the tables on debt collectors. On occasion, he thumbs his own nose at them too.
“How many times can I sue you? Let me count the ways,” he wrote under his pseudonym, Dr. Tax, in a March posting on Inside ARM, a debt collectors’ Web site.
A former bill collector himself, Mr. Katz rebelled after a debt buyer damaged his credit score with what he says was a bogus bill. Mr. Katz sued, and in 2003 he collected his first damage award, a $1,000 check that he now keeps framed behind his desk.
“The bill collectors, when they call, make you feel like the only option you have is to lay down and play dead. That’s not true,” said Mr. Katz said, who does not charge for his advice. “Nothing validates this more than getting a check.”
Call this movement revenge of the (alleged) deadbeats. Even as collectors try to recoup debts from millions of Americans struggling to pay their bills, a small but growing number of lawyers and consumers are fighting back against what they describe as harassment, unscrupulous practices — and, most important to their litigiousness, violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
In fact, 8,287 federal lawsuits were filed citing violations of the act in 2009, a 60 percent rise over the previous year, according to WebRecon, a site that tracks collection-related litigation and the most litigious consumers and lawyers on behalf of debt collectors.
(Excerpt) Read more at finance.yahoo.com ...
They don’t know when to quit. We should have Navy Legal to help us....
A LOT of debt collectors will lie to you and try to get you to give them access to your checking account so they can take out “one payment” and then they will clean you out for every nickel and don’t give a damned if you can feed your family or not. Others will call your boss and say nasty things about you. And others will try to get you to give them money for an unsecured debt when you don’t have enough to make the rent.
Can I ask you a quick question? Re SoL, the literature talks about what kind of contract it is and when it was signed. What’s the situation when a guy’s car dies while he’s driving, he pulls off the road and leaves it with a note on the windshield, he comes back the next day and it’s been towed. Is there a “contract” with the towing company, or is it one of those umbrella deals where you “agreed” to that kind of thing when you got a driver’s license.
My husband was on the board of a cooperative, they got so little from the debt collectors by the time they took their cut that they stopped using them. They did have the ability to keep those patrons dividends and though it took a long time often they realized more than if they’d gone through the debt collectors.
FDCPA=Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, federal laws that provide what you might call 'the rules of the road' for debt collectors. It defines reasonable versus unreasonable contact, among other rules for collectors. Most collection agencies in my experience break at least one of these rules of the road.
BK=bankruptcy. Debts are generally discharged in BK. What does that mean? You technically still owe the money, but creditors can't attempt to collect it. There's a type of legal injunction put in place by the BK court.
SOL=statute of limitations. Debts can only be enforced for a period of time. That's state law, which can vary by type of credit and the governing law. Most lenders will include a clause in the governing contract specifying which state's laws govern the transaction.
There's a new type of collection agency that's causing a lot of trouble for a lot of people. They buy uncollectable debt and try to collect on it. The initial collector may pay 25 cents on the dollar for the debt and will try to collect it. A subsequent agency may pay 10 cents on the dollar...the next 5 cents, etc.
Usually when debt is uncollectable there's a reason. It's out of statute, which means it can't be legally enforced; it may have been discharged in BK, which means it cannot be legally enforced. They may not have contact info for the debtor, so they...oddly enough...can end up attaching it to someone else. Maybe someone who was listed as next-of-kin...someone with a similar name...someone with a SS# ckose to yours. Sometimes the debtors are just deadbeats.
One particular company that tries to collect uncollectables uses a robo-dial system to call folks they think owe the agency money. They can call 3-4 times a day, day after day.
Once upon a time I ran a business. I used to have to call the NSF folks and try to get money. I used to look at the collection agency as someone who stood up for the business people.
They, along with the credit repositories, have earned the bad reputation they have with me, many times over.
Lenders have a lot of power. They can put the machinery of the legal system against a borrower. They can ruin credit.
IF...they follow the law. That law is the FDCPA. In some states consumer protection laws apply.
You probably left it on a stretch of highway where cars get towed if left. I think most states will post the policy, "Cars left on side of road will be immediately towed" but I don't believe they have to.
The towing company charges what the market will bear, and they have your car. The state authorized the tow. Sorry!
Collection agencies that work with the original lender/creditor are usually the most professional and the most expensive.
The agencies I generally have to deal with are farther down the food chain. They are not collecting for someone else, but bought the debt and are trying to make a return on it. Maybe there's not enough dollars involved to do it right.
Not always.
About six months ago we started getting mail for someone we had never heard of. It was mostly junk, but we made a effort to contact the guy who's name was on the envelope along with returning the mail to the carrier with the notice that this person does not live here.
About a week ago we started getting dunning calls for this person.
They do not want to hear that this person does not only not live here but that they are completely unknown to us.
I am seriously considering having the phone disconnected.
NOT TRUE! I went to the emergency room about 3 years ago. I didn't get a bill or statement from the hospital. Several months later I got a collection notice from the hospital. I paid the bill. Then, about a year later, I start getting mail and calls from a bill collection outfit saying I owed the hospital the $100. Rather than argue with them and unbeknownst to me, my wife paid the bill. Now, about 18 months later, I start getting bills and calls from ANOTHER bill collection agency on the same bill. I went off on them telling them, among other choice and selected things, that they purchased some bad debt that was not bad debt. I told them they are getting screwed by somebody that sold them something that does not exist. A month or so later I got a check from the hospital refunding me $300!
So, it's not true that paying your bills will keep the bill collector away. Even if you pay your bills that doesn't mean a bill collector won't be purchasing with the intent of making a profit, alleged debt that someone else is selling that may or may not be bad debt. And of course, the burden of proof is on you to show you do not owe the bill. I'm talking to a lawyer and I'm not going to settle for a little $1000 for the hickey on my credit record. I want blood to teach them a lesson for being stupid.
I certainly did not mean to imply that the bill collectors are not a problem. Thanks for sharing the details of your experience and I hope you do follow through with a lawsuit. Go get 'em!
On the part about the burden of proof being on us and not them, that needs to change. Of course, campaign contributions to our elected representatives make it a cold day in hell before that ever happens.
Why wait. You can move to communist China if that is political atmosphere you would like to live under.
Government worker unions were common in the USSR. The difference is that in the Soviet Union the government controlled the unions; whereas here, the unions control the government at the expense of working stiffs.
You must be so proud.
How much you want to bet that's $2,495 in cash, up front, well before the seminar begins.
I'm proud that I live in a country that allows freedom of assoiciation, the right to assemble, to petition for our grievences and to organize. There is no communist country that allows that.
I am considerably less proud that we have elected officials that are willing to give away the store in exchange for campaign contributions as they have in negotiations with public employee unions.
As much as you and I don't like those deals, your wrath is more properly directed at your representatives, not undoing our constitutional liberties because you don't like the deals your elected representatives made on your behalf.
I'm not willing to throw away our constitutional protections simply because I don't like the results of blatantly corrupt activities.
You call it freedom of association. FDR and his commies forced unionism on employers via the Wagner Act in 1935. Public employee unions were forced on the states under JFK. The only reason for both was to guarantee democrat electoral victories. It is also called a conflict of interest that would be illegal anywhere else. Your dues ensure reelection of the dirtbags who fleece the taxpayer who promise to pay you more.
We can see the future of the US in the present in CA, NY, NJ and MI. Much of the reason is public employee unions.
What flavor of looter are you? Teacher?
Get a life.
“the absolute worst are the ones OUTSIDE THE STATUE OF LIMITATIONS . they want you to pay ANYTHING in order to reboot the statute of limitations.”
Even the IRS has Statute of Limitations governing their collection activities. And as nasty as they are at times, they respect the SOL.
There are law firms out there that make a high stakes living buying ‘debt’ for pennies on the dollar and then crucifying the person who most of the time cannot pay. Don’t pay them a dime - their actions are generally evil and illegal. Legislation generally has been protective, not of the debtor, but of the creditor.
The United States Government has been in Bankruptcy since 1933. The money each of you have in your pocket or in your bank accounts was created by debt. You are all permanent debtors. You are slaves to the World Banksters.
What are you speaking of, FRiend?
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