Glenn Beck Discusses Lincoln with "Expert"

Glenn Beck Show ^ | 2/15/2009 | Self

[central_va]

Did anyone here see tonight's Glenn Beck TV show segment with the author (Lehrman?) of Lincoln at Peoria?

[thatdewd]

Count me back in, I’ve come out of retirement! See post 240.

[Bigun]

I have little faith that you will but you really should read John Remington Graham's A Constitutional History of Secession

[stainlessbanner]

Good to see you back thatdewd

[manc]

I have heard many times of many folks that Lincoln wanted to send the blacks back but can you help me out please.

I need some on this or evidence not that I do not believe it or you so please do not get me wrong on that but because I need to shut a guy up I know.

I have some of his comments which were racist but if you have any more I would appreciate them

good to see you back on here too

[Lauren BaRecall]

Ya'll are just as strident and self righteous as your ancestors we fought ever were.

LOL! Some of us are actually just plain righteous! ;-)

I want to answer you, but I put a LOT of time and thought into my posts, and I am just too tired to go further at the end of this day.

In the meantime, it's true about Joshua Chamberlain. I read his wartime diary some years ago, which was featured in Ken Burn's The Civil War. That's where I first met up with him. If you're interested, please take a look here. I realize it's Wikipedia, but IMO it's pretty accurate. BTW, I did sit through the entire showing of Gettysburg in a movie theater (before it was made into a series), and thought it was too short! LOL!

A telling passage from wiki:

On the morning of April 9, 1865, Chamberlain learned of the desire by Lee to surrender the Army of Northern Virginia when a Confederate staff officer approached him under a flag of truce. "Sir," he reported to Chamberlain, "I am from General Gordon. General Lee desires a cessation of hostilities until he can hear from General Grant as to the proposed surrender."[4] The next day, Chamberlain was summoned to Union headquarters where Maj. Gen. Charles Griffin informed him that he had been selected to preside over the parade of the Confederate infantry as part of their formal surrender at Appomattox Court House on April 12.[5]

Thus Chamberlain was responsible for one of the most poignant scenes of the Civil War. As the Confederate soldiers marched down the road to surrender their arms and colors, Chamberlain, on his own initiative, ordered his men to come to attention and "carry arms" as a show of respect. Chamberlain described what happened next:

Gordon, at the head of the marching column, outdoes us in courtesy. He was riding with downcast eyes and more than pensive look; but at this clatter of arms he raises his eyes and instantly catching the significance, wheels his horse with that superb grace of which he is master, drops the point of his sword to his stirrup, gives a command, at which the great Confederate ensign following him is dipped and his decimated brigades, as they reach our right, respond to the 'carry.' All the while on our part not a sound of trumpet or drum, not a cheer, nor a word nor motion of man, but awful stillness as if it were the passing of the dead.[6]

Chamberlain's salute to the Confederate soldiers was unpopular with many in the North, but he defended his action in his memoirs, The Passing of the Armies. Many years later, Gordon, in his own memoirs, called Chamberlain "one of the knightliest soldiers of the Federal Army." Gordon never mentioned the anecdote until after he read Chamberlain's account, more than 40 years later.[7]

There were honorable men to be found on either side.

[thatdewd]

I have heard many times of many folks that Lincoln wanted to send the blacks back but can you help me out please. I need some on this or evidence not that I do not believe it or you so please do not get me wrong on that but because I need to shut a guy up I know.

The information on this is abundant...Lincoln's colonization program is well documented, just google it "Lincoln colonization" and you'll find plenty. Lincoln's colonization plans were eventually shut down by the radical Republicans, any decent history text will explain that.

I have some of his comments which were racist but if you have any more I would appreciate them

Ah, without knowing what those particular ones are, how am I to answer?

[TNdandelion]

You mentioned the Black Confederate veterans. I think that I feel most bad for them. Many deny that they ever existed because it doesn’t fit their version of history. Sadly, it wasn’t only the white women of the South that suffered such violence. Black women and girls were also abused. They may have been freed slaves but they were still 2nd class citizens in this country’s eyes. Former slaves suffered many of the same fates as white Southerners. This war wasn’t about folks caring for Black people. At least, they didn’t show it if it was. I think that inciting the former slaves to riot was “sport” for some folks. Not that they didn’t have reasons to riot, but when it was all said and done, it didn’t really help the former slaves in the long run. They weren’t much better off than before when it was all over with. They still had another 100yrs to go before real emancipation took place.

[Bigun]

All the “traditional” freeper arguments aside, it is NO accident that Lincoln’s greatest ambition was to remove and expatriate all African Americans from the United States...bar none. Lincoln was the Poster Child of all White Supremacists, of all ilks. It’s just the truth, it’s time we deal with it. Lincoln was a racist. The Clairmont Institute can re-write history as much as they like, it doesn’t change the truth. Lincoln didn’t even want black people anywhere near white people. He said so.

This true but it is also, by far, the least of his foibles.

According to no less an authority than James M. McPherson "Lincoln championed the leaders of the European socialist revolutions of 1848."

Abraham Lincoln and the Second American Revolution

Further, those who knew quite a bit about those revolutions, one Karl Marx for instance, praised Lincoln in 1865 as "the single-minded son of the working class" who had led his "country through the matchless struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a social world." as cited by James M. McPhearson in that same work. (emphasis added)

[manc]

very true

there was an estimated 60,000 blacks who fought for the south, a couple of which are buried in my town which is handy seeing as some refuse to know this fact.

Another difference was that blacks in the south was not always put into segregated regiments like the north.
Forest said that no better confederates ever lived but to hear some about Forest you would think he was the devil.

Maybe one day the black community and the left loons will look more closely into history and maybe in the month of Feb they will be told that blacks were on the side of the south as well as the north

[manc]

I find it ironic it was called reconstruction when infact it was no way near that.

I could not even imagine how southerners felt during that time.
As TN pointed out it was not just white women who were raped but also black women.

The whole past years during that time was an horrific time and we should remember and honor those in that time not name call and put down to silence some in the hope that their version will be the truth when it is not

[thatdewd]

According to no less an authority than James M. McPherson "Lincoln championed the leaders of the European socialist revolutions of 1848."

Ah, that says SO much in just a few words.

[Lauren BaRecall]

Thanks for the genealogy suggestions. That particular grandfather was the American, and at the same time, it was my grandmother's first entrance into the US. I believe the oral history to be true, especially due to some letters he sent my mother, and I can accept his birth not being recorded, but I can't find anyone anywhere. Not even the Federal Census, let alone the LDS website. Every once in awhile, I get re-curious and take another look.

Reconstruction should almost be renamed, "Retribution" for some of it aspects. Although any reconstruction effort anywhere is going to be difficult, I do believe that some designed it to punish and humiliate people.

Or rather, some administered it in a cruel and punishing way. I don't doubt that.

Many times soldiers, both Northern and Southern, lived on whatever they could scavenge, and Southern women did bear the brunt of it. BTW, I first saw Gone With the Wind when I was 14, and I remember being so glad that Melanie shot the bad Yankee, because he was a BAD Yankee. Women really were at the mercy of whoever passed through.

I will look up that prison. I take it that was where your husband's great grandfather was taken.

I'm finding your stories fascinating - this is the stuff that really fleshes out the documents and history. And they go to prove the point that this war was truly fought brother against brother.

[Lee'sGhost]

“LOL!! Hit a nerve, did I?”

Not really. Just pointing out the obvious.

[Who is John Galt?]

Thank you, Sir...

;>)

[Lauren BaRecall]

Oh, about his slaves. The slaves were his wife’s, via inheritance. He freed them before he took up arms.

I realize that General Lee moved into the Custis Lee Mansion upon his marriage, and that his father-in-law was Martha Washington's grandson.

I want to investigate that part regarding freeing his slaves prior to his leading the Army of Northern Virginia. This is the first time I'm hearing it. Thanks.

[Bigun]

You are quite welcome!

;>)

[Who is John Galt?]

Bigun: The States created the Federal government and not the other way around period end of story!

N-S: If you say so.

Typical bull crap from N-S: if it's indisputable, documented historical fact, with which he disagrees (due to his personal biases ;>) he responds - ''If you say so.'

You're amusing as always (and no doubt just waiting for another opportunity to live up to you name), non sequitur...

;>)

[Who is John Galt?]

Bigun: The fallacious notion that "The Union is older than the States and in fact created them as States. The Union, and not themselves separately, procured their independence and their liberty. [T]he Union threw off their old dependence for them and made them States, such as they are." is the essence of Lincoln's, and your, sophistry and I know that you will argue it forever but you will STILL be wrong!

N-S: Because you say so. Thanks for clearing that up.

Thanks for proving my point: 'Because you say so' is definitely the functional equivalent of 'If you say so' - or would you disagree with that simple fact, as well?

;>)

[Lauren BaRecall]

I see that you wrote me a book! LOL! Two things I’ve learned: don’t drink and drive and don’t sleep and post.

I *will* read EVERY word you wrote to me - I just need to start tomorrow. And I thank you in advance for taking the time and making the effort. :-)

[manc]

LOL
you’re welcome

I could write more as I love history but my hands are worn out by years of boxing and so they get tired much more easily.