Glenn Beck Discusses Lincoln with "Expert"

Glenn Beck Show ^ | 2/15/2009 | Self

[central_va]

Did anyone here see tonight's Glenn Beck TV show segment with the author (Lehrman?) of Lincoln at Peoria?

[wardaddy]

that is Julep not Julip Yankee ignoramoose

and it is most commonly ascribed to Kentucky...a border state and birthplace of Mr Lincoln.

here have some Klan on me:

[Idabilly]

“There is a legal way to leave, and an illegal way to try to do so.”

Lincoln didn't believe your line of thought!

You support a man - without defending his reasoning's.Funny

[Lauren BaRecall]

The South just wanted to be left alone.

And at the same time be able to trespass on Northern land, looking for their runaway human "property."

I just shake my head in sorrow, every time I think of so much blood shed by Southern boys for the sake of the plantation owners "property" rights.

[wardaddy]

And they didn't understand that the gin had rendered the slaves uneconomic.

that is hilarious....it was the cotton gin invented by a Yankee which made the production of cotton so lucrative ...much more so than before when most large slave operations in the south were over Indigo and Sugar.

the cotton gin did not pick cotton, it took the seeds out

am I the only one here who has ever actually picked a row of cotton?

I find two things curious..well, a lot more actually but these will do for now....

Why is it that every other slaving nation in that century ended slavery without war and compensated for then most part the slave owners for loss of property?

Does anyone here really think we or world opinion would today support a total war against Islam along the lines of how Grant, Sherman, Sheridan, and other Federals waged against civilians in the south....the very folks who today on this forum high five over that are the first to call bigot on such action against third world based Islam.

Guess all that matters is the color of the aggrieved.

[Lauren BaRecall]

If the damned yankees elect obama again we ought to try leabing again. Northerners now sure don’t have the stomach for stopping it.

The Civil War is over. There are conservatives in the Northern states, and yet there are people from other parts of the country who forget we exist. I have seen this many times on FR.

Under the circumstances I cannot see you as being a fellow American.

[LexBaird]

I wouldn’t think someone who threw around the “Nazi” label and cruised crank sites like you linked would even know what “reason” is. Here’s a clue: reasoned arguments don’t start out with an Ad Hominum.

Lincoln clearly believed that unilateral secession, as attempted by the South, was not legal, and therefore fell under the parts of the Constitution dealing with insurrection. Whether he thought that the South had a Constitutional pathway that didn’t involved armed rebellion, I don’t know.

Regardless, the Constitutionally acceptable method for a State to leave the Union is spelled out in Texas v White. If you don’t like it, try seceding again, lose again, and take it to court again. Or pass an amendment, just like the folks who abolished Slavery and extended the Bill of Rights did. (p.s.: You can find out how to do that in the Constitution as well. Read it sometime.)

[Zionist Conspirator]

It all depends on who’s in power. The New England Federalists were strong champions of states’ rights after they lost power to Thomas Jefferson (the Essex Junto) and during the War of 1812 (the Hartford Convention).

And when those New England states grumbled a bit about secession, the south screamed that they were talking treason.

Exactly! A great deal of ideology is based on self-interest, not principal.

[plain talk]

Slavery was awful and was used by both the North and the South. It was not an exclusive sin of the South. None of my comments had anything to do with slavery. I just believe in the right of self-determination and the right of a State to seceede for whatever reason they deem necessary. That’s how this country was founded.

[Lauren BaRecall]

He had an agonizingly tough choice to make, just as a couple million other Americans had to make at that time. That’s why a civil war is the worst possible thing that can befall a nation and a people.

As one who speaks from the North: I have a great admiration for General Lee. He was a man of honor and character. Although he was a slave owner, he did not believe in the institution, and would have rather seen it phased out gradually, so that there would not be secession and war. He promoted the education of his slaves, in order to prepare them for freedom, and a means by which they could be self-supporting. I am convinced that he based his decisions on personal honor, considering the context in which he found himself.

The question of Virginia's secession was out of his hands, but once his state seceded, he saw loyalty to Virginia as his duty. After the surrender at Appomattox, he dissuaded his officers from conducting a guerrilla war. He then spent the last five years of his life in promoting peace and healing between North and South.

General Lee was a fine example of American manhood, and the consummate Southern Gentleman. And this is why I, a Yankee girl, remember him with high esteem on January 19th of every year.

[Lauren BaRecall]

Slavery was not an exclusive sin of the South, but the North had ended theirs much sooner. I didn't think any of your comments were related to slavery.

I just believe in the right of self-determination and the right of a State to seceede for whatever reason they deem necessary.

Each of the Southern states had ratified the Constitution. The states were not under the loose Articles of Confederation. LexBaird's post #126 makes the point that there is a legal way for a state to secede, and my conclusion is that the Civil War itself settled that a number of states can't merely walk away in tandem.

I've done some studying regarding the Civil War, and I think discussions and even debates are very interesting. But when some people (not pointing at you) act like they're still fighting it, I can become pretty angry.

I have no problem with the Confederate flag, or Southern pride, or pride in one's ancestors that were in such and such regiment. But when I hear fellow Americans castigate President Lincoln in such vile terms, when I can see so much to admire in General Lee, that's where I draw the line.

We've been one Union again for 150 years, and fought in wars in which the rest of the world called all of us "Yankees." And in the current struggle between conservatives and liberals, there are conservatives all over the country - concentrated in some places, and more scattered in others. I hate it when I see posts on FR that illustrate prejudice against the Northeast. *I* live here! If I visited your state, would you despise me because I'm a New Yorker, even though I probably have more in common with you ideologically than perhaps your next door neighbor?

Thanks for bearing with my rant. Some of this has been building for awhile.

[Lauren BaRecall]

The war is over. Your comments need not be vile.

[Live Wire Conserv]

I find it a little difficult to believe that northern men left their Homes, Jobs, Farms, Wives and Children, to go down and march a thousand miles on foot to kill their fellow countrymen and relatives because they had slaves.

That was then - this is now of course. Sending the military is one thing, but even for today’s standards - how many people on your block could you get to do that today? ( And Risk their lives )

I believe Beck set that guy up with that question.

[TNdandelion]

It's also a lot easier to act self righteous when you've been given the opportunity to sell your slaves gradually and recoup your financial losses prior to you state's abolition. And speaking of shackles, what is moral and righteous about forcing former slaves to live in deplorable ghettos or evicting them from the state altogether with threats of violence and heavy fines?

You see, the North's "righteousness" on this issue was born out of hatred. Hatred for the slaves themselves and then hatred for the South's success.

Don't forget, after the Feds "freed" the slaves in the South because they had so much love and compassion in their hearts for the poor and helpless...they targeted and mass killed many Native Americans.

Some people say that it's the winners of wars that get to write the history books. ;)

[TNdandelion]

That’s an excellent point. Keep in mind, the majority of Southerners were not slaveowners and just as I’d find it hard to believe Northerners would leave home and risk death and disease to kill someone over slavery, I can’t see many poor sharecroppers leaving their homes and their children and wives to go fight to protect some rich guy’s plantation of slaves.

[stainlessbanner]

Dixie ping

[TNdandelion]

Lauren, I wouldn't despise you for being a Northerner, but I do think that you have to consider a few things that have happened since the end of the Civil War.

Reconstruction was not as pretty and neat as the word sounds. Additionally, Southerners have been told to "Get over it!" ever since. Now, there is certainly some truth and wisdom in that advice but folks also need to realize that you can't white-wash history and expect everyone to agree and be happy about it.

If you think it makes you angry to hear people castigate Pres. Lincoln...trying hearing someone tell you that your ancestors are anti-American traitors and don't deserve any honor or respect in their Confederate graveyards.

I have no interest in refighting the Civil War, but I would like to stop hearing "get over it...you guys lost!" and actually have that discussion. Like you, I've done some studying and research in my free time. I even found out that one of my great-grandfathers and one of my husband's great-grandfathers down the line both fought in the same battle together at Missionary Ridge, TN. My grandfather was killed in action, but my husband's grandfather was captured as a POW and marched, shipped to a horrible little hellhole of a prison in Illinois.

What saddens me is we all know the story of Andersonville. But the murder, torture and deliberate starvation and exposure to disease that took place in the Union prisons is almost unknown. :( But meh...just "get over it, right?" We'll make a Hollywood movie about Andersonville!! That's my gripe.

[wardaddy]

I’m already on it bub.

this is a dumb question but where did TexasGOpCapitalist go?

[wardaddy]

yet there are people from other parts of the country who forget we exist

LOL..how can we?

Ya'll are just as strident and self righteous as your ancestors we fought ever were.

Four dirty little secrets for ya Lauren:

1) Average southern farmboy from families with few or no slave fought because the Federals invaded. Yep, slavery and expansion and tariffs etc might have been the kindle especially for the firebreathers but the South was never trying to subjugate the north.

2) Average Federal had no care about freeing the slave and sure didn't want them having full rights in his hometown or marrying his daughter either. He fought because he wanted to preserve the Union or was conscripted or because in his eye the bombardment of Fort Sumter was an act of war and it was. Just because Ted Turner..a Yankee born Southerner had Joshua Chamberlain preach it in his movie doesn't make it an historical reality.

3) Lincoln was a racist and extraConstitutional and thankfully for his legacy he is judged simply by the last merit. He was not an abolitionist btw either.

4) Very few of us in the South will turn on our ancestor's memory and ya'll are just going to have to get over that. We entered a PC revisionist outlook over this topic in the 80s mainly due to the rise of blacks in media and academia and whites running scared. That will pass one day and folks will once again view the whole sad affair in context. I agree with you it was one colossal tragedy that should have been avoided. You might notice though that our regional peculiarities still run strong...our's a bit more consistent given our until recently lack of immigrant perspective unlike the north where those descended from folks at that time are now a minority.

I live withing 1500 yards of where there were around 10,000 casualties on 11-30-1864 so none of the sadness of that futility escapes me.

Yankees were willing to fight a war in large part caused by slavery's expansion conflict because they had so few because they did not need them and did not have a culture built upon their labour. When it came to things they did need like Indian land the Union showed their true colors about how they would go when it suited them. Had they needed slaves too there would have been no war. When it came to treating their own former countrywomen and children decently we also got a glimpse as to how they could be when it suited them in southern Louisiana, West Tennesse, Missouri, Georgia, South Carolina and the Shenandoah. The Union had no more claim to the high horse than do my butternut ancestors

[lentulusgracchus]

Properly read in its historical context, the text does not refute JasonC whatsoever. You see, the South didn’t care what he said as President, they already knew how he felt about slavery, and what he would ultimately do.

Then you ought to tell JasonC that. He wrote something different ..... failure of Lincoln to support Dred Scott.

The South seceded because of the worsening sectional political and economic warfare and the remorseless Yankee propaganda war against the South, which foreshadowed what the Yankees intended to do as much or more than anything Lincoln said.

After the John Brown Raid, "we're sorry you didn't all get killed in your beds" kind of said it all. That was the really fatal moment -- and ironically, Lincoln got that one right: he publicly demurred from the lugubrious Northern display for Brown. But what John Brown did -- and especially the ruthlessness and bloodshed -- was fully encompassed by Lincoln's ultimate intentions.

[lentulusgracchus]

You deserved every particle of it and worse. And you can have the like again for the asking. Now cry some more, whining little snot...

There you go ... show your true colors. Let your hatred out, it'll help people weigh you in the balance.