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[Democrat] Owens May Have to Be Removed (NY-23)
The GouverneurTmes ^ | November 12, 2009 | Nathan Barker

Posted on 11/12/2009 4:25:08 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

GOUVERNEUR, NY - Despite the fact that Bill Owens has already been sworn-in and has voted on crucial legislation in the House of Representatives, he may not have actually won the NY-23 Congressional Special Election.

Several errors were made during the initial vote counts. Over 2,000 votes for contender Doug Hoffman were not counted in the preliminary results, narrowing the current vote gap to less than 3,000 votes between Democrat Bill Owens and Conservative Doug Hoffman.

The errors were discovered during the standard vote recanvas that has been underway since November 4th. The largest error occurred in Oswego County where the vote recanvas found a discrepancy of more than 1,200 votes in Doug Hoffman's favor. Another error, in Jefferson County contributed an additional 700 votes in Hoffman's favor during the recount.

The election was close enough even on election night that the New York State Board of Elections was unable to present a "clear decision" in the race according to John Conklin, Communications Director for the department. He said that the Board sent a letter to the Clerk of the House of Representatives in Washington indicating that they could not yet determine a winner and could therefore not certify the election until after the recanvas and absentee ballot count. Those final numbers will not be available until at least mid-December.

Nancy Pelosi was only able to legally swear-in Bill Owens because Doug Hoffman had conceded the election, indicating that he did not contest the initial, and now shown erroneous, results, something he may not have done if he had been aware of how close the election was.

Mr. Hoffman told the Gouverneur Times that he felt at the time that he "was being a good sport" in doing so. With 93% of the polls in and counted and a margin of over 5,000 votes in favor of Owens, he felt he had lost the election. He now says that "while hindsight is 20/20, if I had known it was that close, I probably would have waited."

Bill Owens was sworn in 2 days later and proceeded to vote in favor of Pelosi's health care bill the following day. While Mr. Hoffman feels that deliberately contesting the results of the election to prevent Owens' deciding vote in the Health Care bill would "not have been very sportsmanlike," and that he, personally, would not like to see a politician manipulate events in that manner, he also indicated that the good of the American people and the citizens of the 23rd district would have weighed in on that decision as well.

As it stands now, Bill Owens may be in Washington and voting the Pelosi Party line but when the vote is certified he may be ousted. The state Board of Elections indicated that "...all ballots will be counted, and if the result changes, Owens will have to be removed." Concession speech or not, if the voters in the 23rd District elected Doug Hoffman and not Bill Owens, then Hoffman will be the Representative.

There are currently over 10,000 uncounted absentee ballots, many of which were in the military where a strongly conservative bias exists. Given the narrow margin of Owens' lead at this time, it's entirely possible that this race could still swing for Hoffman.

Sources indicate that the Democrats would not have had the votes to pass the Health bill if Owens had not been sworn-in and pledged his support for it. Several other Representatives have indicated that they would not have cast their votes in favor of the bill if they were not certain that it had the votes to win.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 111th; billowens; congress; democrats; hoffman; ny2009; ny23; obamacare; owens; palin; pelosi
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To: taillightchaser

Sorry...Political Cheating is a one way street....

They cheat and then They win....

it will never work the other way arround....


61 posted on 11/12/2009 4:53:44 PM PST by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation

Nope. They don’t have liberal “bias” - they “support liberal principles.”


62 posted on 11/12/2009 4:54:49 PM PST by Right Cal Gal (Ronald Reagan: "our liberal friends....know so much that isn't so...")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The largest error occurred in Oswego County where the vote recanvas found a discrepancy of more than 1,200 votes in Doug Hoffman's favor. Another error, in Jefferson County contributed an additional 700 votes in Hoffman's favor during the recount.

hmmm. how do you like that? what in the world could've happened there?

For the record i said here in FR that the outcome of that election stunk to high heaven.

It may turn out that Hoffman is still the loser. But it points out something else going on and i doubt that is an isolated incident.

Am i way off or was the Bush/Gore recount settled by a number just over 1000 votes?

63 posted on 11/12/2009 4:55:30 PM PST by uncitizen (I'm mad as hell and i'm not gonna take it anymore!!)
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To: freedumb2003

This should have been a slam dunk for Hoffman and he did his job.

I blame RINOs - Newt, Dede and NY-23 local GOP RINO party hacks. Thanks Newt.


64 posted on 11/12/2009 4:56:15 PM PST by Frantzie (Judge David Carter - democrat & dishonorable Marine like John Murtha.)
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To: freedumb2003
Notice that Democrats from the White House down claimed that the Tea Party/Sarah Palin crowd was "shown to be toothless" by the loss in NY 23. It would clearly stuff it up all their noses if the official count reverses the outcome of this race.

But please keep in mind that this was a Special Election. There will be a regular Election for this race in 2010. As long as the Democrat loses in THAT election, the claims and bragging rights disappear on the spot. Let's keep our eye on the ball, here.

Congressman Billybob

Don't Tread On Me (9/12 photo and poster"

"Ordinary Majesty, Extraordinary Failure"

65 posted on 11/12/2009 4:57:03 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (www.TheseAretheTimes.us)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We need to get off the good sportsmanship trip! We’ve got to fight tooth and nail, every inch of the way.


66 posted on 11/12/2009 4:57:09 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Since he was not duly elected by the people Owens vote for ObamaCare should be null and void...


67 posted on 11/12/2009 4:57:11 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: CounterCounterCulture

Agreed! Just wrong! Concession speech or no, count the GD votes!


68 posted on 11/12/2009 4:57:26 PM PST by Sunshine Sister
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To: Hoodat

Why not?


69 posted on 11/12/2009 4:58:28 PM PST by Sunshine Sister
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To: Congressman Billybob
Got a question, which I must direct to none other than Congressman Billybob:

If Hoffman is ultimately shown to be the winner and replaces Owens as the rep from that district, does that invalidate any votes Owens cast while he was a "representative"?

70 posted on 11/12/2009 4:58:48 PM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

‘...he “was being a good sport” ...’

It’s not a sport. It’s a winner take all death match, at least in the long run.


71 posted on 11/12/2009 4:59:31 PM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: Frantzie
I blame RINOs - Newt, Dede and NY-23 local GOP RINO party hacks. Thanks Newt.

Heck yeah! Until this, I was sort of hoping Newt would run in 2012. But this was either the biggest miscalculation ever or he tipped his hand about his real feelings: party over principle. Either way, he is dead to me.

72 posted on 11/12/2009 5:00:11 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Tennessee Nana

See my posts # 38 and # 49.


73 posted on 11/12/2009 5:00:40 PM PST by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Congressman Billybob
But please keep in mind that this was a Special Election. There will be a regular Election for this race in 2010. As long as the Democrat loses in THAT election, the claims and bragging rights disappear on the spot. Let's keep our eye on the ball, here.

Agreed -- but we have momentum from NJ and VA. This would add more momentum and will pull a seat out from under the botoxed-one.

The best thing you can see from your enemy is fear in his eyes.

74 posted on 11/12/2009 5:03:36 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

I’m not Billybob, but the answer is “no.” Representatives have been excluded after casting not one, but dozens or perhaos hundreds of votes, on many occasions—it was fairly common in the 19th century, when election contests sometimes lasted over a year and successful challengers would serve only a few months of the two-year term.


75 posted on 11/12/2009 5:03:56 PM PST by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he will protect you?)
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To: Frantzie
Agreed. This is politics. It's blood sport and Democrats are masters at playing dirty. Election results affects our lives and and our livelyhood.

This lack of fight in the end result unfortunately shows a weakness in Hoffman that he needs to overcome immediately if he wants to be a force in future politics, if it's not too late already.

76 posted on 11/12/2009 5:04:38 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture (Chuck DeVore for U.S. Senate from California ... Bounce Boxer)
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To: Ronin
They play to win.

The Fascicrats play to defeat.

I Owens vote does not count, can Cao change his vote?

77 posted on 11/12/2009 5:05:56 PM PST by depressed in 06 (ZerOcare: Bureaucratic best practices equals death panels.)
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To: NewJerseyJoe
Each House is the "judge of its own elections." So, provided that Nancy Pelosi doesn't engineer a way to steal the election from Hoffman, here is the result: The House made a "mistake" in seating the Democrat. But it "believed" it was correct at the time.

Whether that argument is legitimate under the Constitution will not matter. That's because the Constitution commits the judging of House election results to the House itself.

Wish I could give you a better answer, but that's the correct answer.

Congressman Billybob

Don't Tread On Me (9/12 photo and poster"

"Ordinary Majesty, Extraordinary Failure"

78 posted on 11/12/2009 5:08:21 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (www.TheseAretheTimes.us)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Owens was selected not elected!


79 posted on 11/12/2009 5:20:44 PM PST by Mr. Peabody
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To: buccaneer81

Besides that, there is a pretty credible story circulating that Pelosi “allowed” a number of blue dogs to vote “no” in order to give them political cover for 2010. The Dhimmis probably had a fairly good cushion on that vote, so the importance of this Hoffman vote shouldn’t be exagerated.

Still and all, I’d love to see the result reversed just to be able to imagine blood shooting out of the eyes of the Dhimmi leadership.


80 posted on 11/12/2009 5:23:40 PM PST by Scanian
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