Posted on 10/26/2009 7:51:02 AM PDT by Scythian
I'm a huge Beck fan, in fact I'm listening right now here
http://www.ksfa860.com/common/gap_streamer.php
but something really confuses me. It takes the ability to use real critical thinking to know what Beck (and most of us know about the state of the country and where we are heading). That is, we have the ability to discover the truth no matter how much the media or conventional wisdom try to hide it. Yet on Mormonism, Beck is cleary wrong. Any Christian knows that the book or momonism is severely flawed and that Joseph Smith was no prophet. How can Beck cut through all the chaff of what is going on in our world and come to the truth and yet believe the writings of Joseph Smith? It doesn't make sense? I'm not saying he's up to something secret, not by any means, it's just that he's so right about so many things and completely wrong on the most important thing. Now, he just said on the air that he believes Jesus is the Savior of the world and that he is Mormon.
I also think that because he is Mormon he is not attacked near as much if he was a Evangelical Bible only believer. Anyway, am I nutz or does Beck being a Mormon seem bizarre?
exactly.
I find it amazing that some on the right are playing the left wings card meanwhile the left are loving this.
If Beck starts preaching about his faith being the one and only then I will say it is wrong but he is not.
Instead he tells us how many radicals we have in power and now some on here want to preach their religion to us it seems to me.
His religion has nothing to do with any of us as he keeps his faith quiet.
Only the ones who think they have the true religion are interested in his religion.
Are you that challenged?
Here, I'll go to http://deseretbook.com -- which is owned by the Mormon church -- for you: AnUnlikelyMormonTheConversionStoryOfGlennBeck
Here's an excerpt of their description of GLENN BECK's PRESENTATION that GLENN BECK APPROVED for his religious body to circulate worldwide!
An Unlikely Mormon shows the real Glenn Beck. But be careful, Glenn's enthusiasm for his faith is contagious.
...In this presentation, Glenn Beck tells an audience of nearly 7,000 about his conversion to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints...Glenn bears his testimony about home teaching, tithing, and the transforming power of the Spirit. ...Glenn's story will strengthen the testimony of any Latter-day Saint. In addition, An Unlikely Mormon will be an ideal missionary tool.
OK, Puppage, what part of "An Unlikely Mormon will be an ideal missionary tool" will I need next to explain for you?
great post.
I remember the mormon bashing after the LDS had their kids taken away and was saying how abuse was going on or when Mitt was running and the usual comments came out again.
Even when the mormon church helped to stop homosexuals from being married they were bashed by a couple on here because they were mormon.
It is pathetic and boring.
So long as they do not tell me how to live, what I should accept then fine I have no problem with them or anyone else.
It is when certain folks tell me what is real, what is the real religion, what is right and wrong based on their religion I have a problem with
If I understand you correctly, you are attempting to disprove faith in Mormonism with reasoned argument.
If so, the effort cannot succeed.
If a person has faith in anything unseen, then he/she is more likely to be accommodative and tolerant of others with similar faith, even if the specifics of what is believed are different.
Where are you in all this? Do you believe in things unproven, unprovable and unseen?
will never not change my mind or beliefs.=will NEVER change my mind or beliefs.
Don't throw him overboard because of this difference of opinion. He will be more help to you than hindrance.
You're a genius!!
Yes. (I do care for you and your long-term spiritual welfare)
I think you need to worry far less about what other people do & think if it doesn't directly involve you.
That's your spiritual libertarianism coming out. That religious viewpoint may work for you to some degree, but you can't expect it to be imposed upon others... ...I mean here you adhere to some form of spiritual libertarianism (you think people's shouldn't worry about others' beliefs)...
...and yet you're quite directive for somebody supposedly so "libertarian" ("...if it doesn't directly involve you" butt out kind of impositional language). If you were truly more "libertarian" in what one believes, you wouldn't care what I said.
...many of whom acted in entirely un-Christian ways
What does an "un-Christian way" mean to someone who isn't a Christian?
On Fox News.....as part of his show? Sounds like he was telling a bunch of people who came to hear him lecture about his life, etc.
BIG, BIG difference than interspersing his religious believe into his news commentary.
Are you that challenged?
There ya go, right on que. When you can't attack the message, attack the messenger.
So, again I will ask.....give me an example of Beck's religious views skewering his news commentary. I don't think you can.
>>> By the way, if you are prone to think I am some half educated, deceived, fool, you might want to think again. My degrees include physics, aerospace, law (from Harvard) and a PhD. And I have been a fighter pilot for the USAF.
I don’t recall bringing your intelligence, education, commitment or patriotism into question.
Neither do I recall bringing Beck’s intelligence, etc. into question.
My arguments thus far in this thread have been directed at answering the question of why someone who is so intelligent and scrutinizing (discerning) can be deceived by the claims of Mormonism. Basically, my answer was that it is because those claims simply have not been scrutinized. The same could probably be said of you, without calling into question those things you mentioned which certainly qualify you as an intelligent and dedicated patriot.
Faith is a very powerful force of the mind which is capable of overriding reason and logic. It really doesn’t matter how smart someone is... if they want to believe something is true, they are capable of making that choice. The human mind is quite capable of lying to itself and getting away with it to the point of irreproachable belief.
What was it I said? Those were facts on the ground. I did not make up anything. I like evangelicals myself and my family is full of them and they are good Christians. They were not onboard for Prop 8 like they should have been. It is not their fault they are very splintered and they have no leadership top down. They tend to be very focused on their local church which is fine with me.
It was nothing you said. If we’re talking about the same post, I started with “All:” meaning, everybody. Not you specifically. Apology for any confusion.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I truly don't care what you say or said.
As far as "imposing my viewpoint on others", where have I done that?
What does an "un-Christian way" mean to someone who isn't a Christian?
It means acting in ways that go against the core tenets of one's faith, as everyone generally understands. You know, like buying, selling & enslaving your fellow human beings.
Maybe his wife is a Mormon......Plus, he was an alcoholic, so maybe Mormonism’s no drinking policy worls for him. I don’t get Mormonism, though.
It's much better to be a non-productive Mormon basher. What a maroon. Name one thing you have done to promote conservative ideals in the past week. Take all the time you need. We look forward to your reply.
What?
The entire context for us discussing this was Beck's beliefs, not what's in every past Fox transcript of his. If you want to take the discussion to what he does ONLY before a Fox microphone, sure we can discuss that. But keep in mind then you're changing the focus of discussion -- and therefore, you're at best only addressing what I said in post #222 in a smaller slice of Mr. Beck's life -- what he does before a mike in a studio.
But, here's the example you wanted, anyway: Beck, who first cited Skousen in his 2003 book The Real America: Messages from the Heart and the Heartland, later started pitching Skousen’s 1981 book The 5,000 Year Leap on air in December, 2008.
I am NOT defending them, I could care LESS about them. All I am saying is that they don't matter one way or the other when commenting on the issues of the day. If he starts espousing his religious views into those very same issues...
Well, first of all, Beck's commenting on "the issues of the day" doesn't only happen in a Fox studio. (Obviously, Beck would consider "religious issues" to be under the same broad umbrella as "issues of the day" -- and he addressed those religious & personal issues before 7,000 in that DVD).
A second way Beck "comments on the issues of the day" doesn't involve a microphone at all. (His writings)
Note the full graph from Brooks' article at ReligionDispatch.org: Before 1999, Glenn Beck told jokes and pulled on-air stunts for a living. He developed the content of his current conservative messaging (an amalgation of anti-communism, United States-founder worship, and connect-the-dots conspiracy theorizing) after his entree into the deeply insular world of Mormon thought and culture. A significant figure in this world is the late Cleon Skousen (1913–2006), the archconservative and fiercely anti-communist Brigham Young University professor, founder of the Freeman Society, and author of 15 books, including The Naked Capitalist, The Making of America, and Prophecy and Modern Times. Beck, who first cited Skousen in his 2003 book The Real America: Messages from the Heart and the Heartland, later started pitching Skousen’s 1981 book The 5,000 Year Leap on air in December, 2008. He wrote a preface for a new edition of the book issued a few months later and in his March 2009 kick-off of the 9/12 movement declared Skousen’s book to be “divinely inspired.”
Now what does Cleon Skousen believe?
Skousen excerpt: Through modern revelation we learn that the universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligence's, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligence's honor and sustain Him as such...since God 'acquired' the honor and sustaining influence of 'all things' it follows as a corollary that if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or 'sense of justice' of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the 'power' of God would disintegrate...'He would cease to be God'“ (The First 2,000 Years, pp. 355-356).
Beck & Skousen represent the Mormon belief, thereby, that God was once a man and "acquired" godhood; and that, you can do that, too.
Also, does Beck believe Skousen's "pro-family" view on parenthood? (That parenthood = godhood???)
“Mortality made it possible for us to be endowed with the powers of procreation for the first time…The divine power of procreation is described by the Lord as being a fundamental quality of Godhood. In fact, eternal parenthood is Godhood” (The First 2000 Years, pp. 39-40).
To unpack Skousen, what's he saying here?
Perhaps you've seen the Lds bumper sticker, "Families are forever." (Lds get that from Joseph Smith's Doctrine & Covenants D&C 132 re: "eternal marriage.")
Well Skousen used the same section --vv. 19-20 to teach eternal parenthood. (The thing is those verses also teach polygamy)
What did Skousen mean by his reference to "mortality" and "procreation for the first time"? Lds believe that by Adam & Eve sinning, it wasn't simply a "fall" -- it was a "fall upward" -- an event to be "celebrated." (see quote below) Why? Because they believe this was the only way they could become "mortal" (by sinning). And, hence, by becoming "mortal" they could then rise to godhood. (They get this in part from the Book of Mormon -- a phrase that reads, "Adam fell that men might be..." [it doesn't say be what...Mormons fill in the blank on that] Anyway, Skousen didn't believe that God made Eve able to reproduce until she fell; that falling was a good thing; otherwise, parenthood would not have been (per Mormonism); and potential godhood for them would not have been as well.
In this way, Mormons have the absolute wacky understanding that the world's evils were something the Mormon god wanted man to do!
The Lds church in one of its priesthood manuals calls the Fall a "Great Blessing" while one of its general authorities, "apostle" Dallin Oaks, wrote: "Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve's act and honor her with wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall." ("The Choice that Began Mortality" Liahona, 2002)
Yea. That just about sums it up. I haven't heard Glenn drone on about his faith or push it. So I don't see him having to be "teflon" about.
You should take a look in the mirror. I have gone through and read all your posts on this thread. There is a common theme and it is highly hypocritical of you. You seem to be, or at least are aware, of a religious person. You would like everyone here to accept that Mormon's (LDS) are WRONG, is a cult, etc. You desperately want everyone here to believe what you believe and are ridiculing everyone who disagrees or is even apathetic about it.
Most here have defended Beck's right to follow or associate himself with whatever religion he likes and have further opined on the opinion that it makes no difference and does not apparently affect his work.
You on the other hand are out to demonize him, the Mormon faith and anyone else who does not join you.
Help me out here, what was it that Jesus said of the hypocrites?
You seem to be a very angry person.
Your earlier statement: I think you need to worry far less about what other people do & think if it doesn't directly involve you.
Of course, online, it's ALWAYS hard to tell on tone on statements like this...but I could just see some teen's father saying to them: "I think you need to worry far less about what other people do & think if it doesn't directly involve you." (It comes across as a very mild scolding, even if I read the tone wrong)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.